Author Topic: This might be a bit out there....  (Read 6515 times)

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Offline Lusha

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This might be a bit out there....
« on: January 24, 2011, 07:33:50 pm »
Okay So I know that this thread might get locked pretty quickly, well I am just saying that I am not exactly sure if this sort of thread is against the rules, I pursued the guidlines but i didnt really see any thing specific to this.  Any way.. So As a few of you might know, I am a lesbian.  One thing that I was kinda having a hard time figuring out with out be absurdly rude Is who else that attends the con is a Lesbian or gay.  I only want to know cause I don't really have that many friends that are like me, And thanks to an assembly today figured out that I am the only one in my school.... Ya thanks special guest Speaker.  (Had us all close our eyes and the ones that were stood and walked to the floor... I was the only one that walked to the floor.... ) 
So I really want to hang out with some other people of the ROYGBIV.  (a saying my friend has.) 

So obviously you dont have to post but if you want to but just kinda curious who I might hang out with...

Offline Greg Hines

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2011, 07:41:29 pm »
Okay So I know that this thread might get locked pretty quickly [...]

If everyone behaves, I assure you it will not be locked.

Offline The Ronin

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2011, 07:48:44 pm »
I'm not, but good for you putting yourself out there.
Tell me now. Is there a man among you here? Is there no one who will stand up and try to fight?
Tell me Man, is there not one in all your ranks? Is there not one who values courage over life?
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Offline Lusha

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2011, 07:57:32 pm »
Thank you Greg and Ronin. 

Offline Greg Hines

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2011, 08:24:51 pm »
I'm sorry about what happened at the school assembly. What a terrible idea that was on the speaker's part!

If there were at least a few dozen people at the assembly, rest assured that you weren't the only non-normative student there. Depending on which study you consult, somewhere between five and 10 percent of people are non-normative in some way--gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, etc. So for every 100 people at that assembly, five or more of them probably do (or will) self-identify as non-normative.

But that age range, a lot of people are still confused about their sexual or gender identities--they may consider themselves "curious," for example. And many of those that have begun to self-identify as non-normative don't come out to classmates for fear of becoming social pariahs or even victims of violence; though things are better for non-normative teens than they were even a decade ago, it can still be a tough road and not everyone is willing to take that road while they're still in high school. So there aren't many teens who have both begun to identify as non-normative and are willing to be out to their entire school, which is likely why you were alone in walking out to the floor.

Many people wait until they've graduated from high school and left home before they come out or before they even to start to explore their feelings. Some people deny or repress their feelings for years on end, and have a much harder time down the road when their true feelings erupt to the surface.

As for NDK, we welcome everyone, both normative and non-normative. Our anti-harassment policy helps protect anyone who's non-normative in some way (sexual, gender, or other) from being harassed by other attendees and we take it very seriously. We also have a number of panels related to such topics at the con each year (the numbers and variety depending on submissions from attendees, of course). Quite a few attendees (and even staff members) identify as non-normative in some way; though I can't prove it, I would imagine it's a disproportionately large number given the general level of acceptance toward non-normative identies among anime fans. In other words, we hope you find NDK a safe haven where you can be yourself and spend time with other people who share your interests and have similar life experiences.

EDIT: Oh, and you may want to join the Gay/Straight Alliance at your school (or start one if there isn't one already). Perhaps some of those non-normative students who are too uncomfortable or afraid to come out to the entire school would be comfortable enough being out to a select and supportive group of people.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 08:41:12 pm by Greg Hines »

Offline Joel Berger

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2011, 08:28:18 pm »
I'm just going to have to say "ouch" to what happened at the assembly.  I'm assuming from your frankness that you were already out at school, but it's still a lonely feeling (even if I suspect not everyone who might've stepped forward actually did).

Offline Lusha

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2011, 08:57:20 pm »
I'm assuming from your frankness that you were already out at school, but it's still a lonely feeling (even if I suspect not everyone who might've stepped forward actually did).
 Ya it totally sucked And it was only due to the fact that I am already the weird odd out cast kid at my school and hav always been that people dont say much about it, but the other people that I see getting picked on for other reasons, being transgendered in this case, I run up infrontof and tell the other people off and accociate with me so then they stop bugging them.  I guess this odd reputation comes in handy, But ya I felt really bad infront of my shool of over 15 thousand students being the only one to have walked down there.  there huge bleachers too so I kept hoping some one else would come dwn with me but no one...



EDIT: Oh, and you may want to join the Gay/Straight Alliance at your school (or start one if there isn't one already). Perhaps some of those non-normative students who are too uncomfortable or afraid to come out to the entire school would be comfortable enough being out to a select and supportive group of people.

I actually have tried to, But the school shut it down very quickly as soon as parents started complaining... It SUCKED.    And I do see NDK as a fun and safe place and Anime fans do accept into our community alot of non-normative people which is why i thought there would be a better chance by posting this to find those other people so we can all hang out.  

--
And with my mom seemingly changing faces on the topic its just difficult.  So I really want to meet some other people so I dont feel so Lonely.  And I think it would be fun too. 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 09:00:26 pm by lusha »

Offline Osias

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2011, 10:41:06 pm »
I think that what the guest speaker did was very unprofessional, by having put students in the position that their /gender orientation is exposed; as Greg has said, though there are more rights for and tolerance for people who are transgendered or non heterosexual, there is still a prejudice towards “non normative” people .

I think the guest speaker should face consequences, because he /she may have caused students to be alienated and endangered them. When I moved from Colorado to Iowa I was threatened with physical harm, and was verbally harassed by people who did not accept my transgendered appearance. The fear was so great that I now often conceal my identity.

I myself am transgendered, though I am female I have a preference to dress in masculine clothing and  do masculine activities (this is not in reference to sexual activities but various activity commonly associated with being acceptable for males to do but not females).

As I have said due to fear and intolerance I often now conceal my identity, and by concealing my identity it has led to a change in my identity. This does not mean that my identity has completely reversed; I no longer dress masculine, but I do not dress feminine ether; I have become more androgynous. I do reject some of my previous masculine traits, and embrace a few new feminine traits, but this change is very little. I still mostly prefer to identify as masculine rather than feminine, or now at least androgynous, nether masculine or feminine.

Sexuality has many complications. Although I am transgendered I do not sexually prefer females. Your sexual and gender identity may change several times throughout your life and may never come to a concrete resolution.

I would like to caution you though there is a greater acceptance of “non normative” identities among anime fans, and although you are protected at NDK, there are people in the world who have an interest in anime but are prejudice and do not have tolerance for “non normative” identities.
 
Though this is a public forum , I feel that is separate enough from my professional and public life, to share at least that much about the subject.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 11:59:22 pm by Osias »
"Listen, here's what I think. I think that we can't go around... measuring our goodness by what we don't do. By what we deny ourselves, what we resist, and who we exclude. I think... we've got to measure goodness by what we *embrace*, what we create... and who we include"
 
- Joanne Harris

Offline Lusha

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2011, 10:47:35 pm »
It is pretty strong of you to post that in Osias.  And I will deffinately help out any one that needs a little support.  I have gone through my childhood always completely isolated, and i wish t change that and help other people feel welcome and backed up.

Offline colonelmasako

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2011, 02:30:41 pm »
Lusah, I'm not sure how old you are, but I can assure you any higher education institution you attend beyond high school will have policies and clubs that support open communication and acceptance of those from the LBGT community. You are fortunate and brave in that you know where you stand and identify with, keep pushing for your rights and time will make things better.

As far as the NDK crowd is concerned, you are most certainly not alone. I'm straight as an arrow, but my radar pings pretty high considering how much I get hit on by both guys and girls. Its just how NDK is, everyone can be free and open and comfortable in their own skin (or in their costume). I think keen observations about groups of people you see at NDK will help you to find which groups you might feel most comfortable in. Make friends through the facebook/myspace thread, pay attention to the "interested in" parts of their profiles, you'll find you are definitely not alone.

Offline rini

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2011, 03:19:14 pm »
lusha: as ppl said, that speaker was, well, it'd get censored. but, sufficed to say, it's not pleasant.

what you did was amazingly brave. good for you!

not a lesbian, but have many LGBT friends. in that vein: http://www.itgetsbetter.org/

Offline The Ronin

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2011, 04:39:56 pm »
And with my mom seemingly changing faces on the topic its just difficult.  So I really want to meet some other people so I dont feel so Lonely.  And I think it would be fun too.  
Give her time. Even with as much awareness and understanding as there is now it's still a very, VERY shocking thing to a parent. My "sister," (born male) Kaylei is TG and it's taken 2 years now for my mom to be able to talk to her without the whole conversation turning into a huge fight. They're finally starting to get along, but I wouldn't leave them in a room alone for too long. Even for a while Kaylei and I didn't get along because I didn't really understand (I still don't, but I do everything I can to let her know that I'm her big brother and I love her.) And every time I'd slip up saying brother or something else to the male side she'd get super pissed and treat me like I was trying to destroy her.

Everything is cool between us now, but because of misunderstanding on both sides it very nearly wasn't.
Tell me now. Is there a man among you here? Is there no one who will stand up and try to fight?
Tell me Man, is there not one in all your ranks? Is there not one who values courage over life?
www.facebook.com/roninsart

Offline Lusha

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2011, 04:53:53 pm »
That brings up a question, could it be that perhaps she is really trying to understand, but maybe her out bursts are just her misunderstandings?  I mean it is so out of character for her to do this sort of thing.  I mean it seems to me like maybe she is trying to understand, but then her out bursts make me really confused on where she stands on the matter.  When I try to talk about it with her she freaks out and then says I dont want to talk about it.  It is like she is avoiding the fact and she can't accept it.  I am her daughter. I know she loves me to death, but It just makes me feel really bad when she is back and forth like this all the time. 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 04:55:53 pm by lusha »

Offline The Ronin

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2011, 05:15:02 pm »
The main thing I was trying to get across is that you shouldn't expect your mom to understand right away. It's going to take her a long time to process through the emotions and logic to get to a point where she can show the true love she has for you. Even with what I've gone through with Kaylei it would come as a massive blow to my system to find out that one of my own children were gay or transgendered. I wouldn't love them any less, but it would take me a while to get my head discombobulated.
Tell me now. Is there a man among you here? Is there no one who will stand up and try to fight?
Tell me Man, is there not one in all your ranks? Is there not one who values courage over life?
www.facebook.com/roninsart

Offline Osias

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2011, 05:18:53 pm »
Give her time. Even with as much awareness and understanding as there is now it's still a very, VERY shocking thing to a parent. My "sister," (born male) Kaylei is TG and it's taken 2 years now for my mom to be able to talk to her without the whole conversation turning into a huge fight. They're finally starting to get along, but I wouldn't leave them in a room alone for too long. Even for a while Kaylei and I didn't get along because I didn't really understand (I still don't, but I do everything I can to let her know that I'm her big brother and I love her.) And every time I'd slip up saying brother or something else to the male side she'd get super pissed and treat me like I was trying to destroy her.

Everything is cool between us now, but because of misunderstanding on both sides it very nearly wasn't.

Just so people are not too confused about me, I would like to say that I am not nearly as transgendered as your sister. I do not get offended when people address me with feminine pronouns, it’s even preferred to address me with feminine pronouns; and though I might were a suit to a formal event, it would be a woman’s suit not a men’s suit.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with your sister choice, I am just saying there are different levels of being transgendered, and my transgender identity is more internal than external… though at one point in time it was more external than it is now…
 
and Ronin, I think Lusha may have been referring to her mother when she used the term "her", she is curious about her mother’s outburst not your sisters outburst.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 05:44:40 pm by Osias »
"Listen, here's what I think. I think that we can't go around... measuring our goodness by what we don't do. By what we deny ourselves, what we resist, and who we exclude. I think... we've got to measure goodness by what we *embrace*, what we create... and who we include"
 
- Joanne Harris

Offline The Ronin

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2011, 05:22:54 pm »
Just so people are too confused about me, I would like to say that I am not nearly as transgendered as your sister. I do not get offended when people address me with feminine pronouns, it’s even preferred to address me with feminine pronouns; and though I might were a suit to a formal event, it would be a woman’s suit not a men’s suit.
I am not saying there is anything wrong with your sister choice, I am just saying there are different levels of being transgendered, and my transgender identity is more internal than external… though at one point in time it was more external than it is now…
 
and Ronin, I think Lusha may have been referring to her mother when she used the term "her", she is curious about her mother’s outburst not your sisters outburst.
Yeah, I edited my post as you were writing yours. I skimmed over her post the first time. D'OH!

Things between Kaylei and me are all cool now, she's even said that it's ok for me to call her "Bro" when we're talking and hanging out now.
Tell me now. Is there a man among you here? Is there no one who will stand up and try to fight?
Tell me Man, is there not one in all your ranks? Is there not one who values courage over life?
www.facebook.com/roninsart

Offline nemisis47

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2011, 05:46:48 pm »
I for one am straight and I accept people for who they are personally not if they are apart of the LGBT community. I for one respect LGBT folks and many of my close friends are Bi, some Lesbian and a few trans folks. Don't matter what you are, you are what you are. You like me I'll like you back. Transgenderism at times confuses me, but I am doing my best to really understand that.

Offline Lusha

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2011, 06:01:12 pm »
My Main question with this thread, just to try to get it back on track here is who else at NDK is "Non Normative"? 

Offline Skrae

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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2011, 05:05:06 am »
*doffs his hat and does a little bow*

I am bisexual and identify as androgynous with a slight leaning more toward the feminine than the masculine.  Remember, "My name is Legion, for we are many."  This is true everywhere, even at NDK, and even among staff I'm sure.
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Re: This might be a bit out there....
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2011, 11:25:56 am »
We've had one guy who helped our booth (and NDK at times) who is gay. We are still trying to get him and his roommates (also gay) to attend more frequently, but they are more likely to go to the Rocky Mountain Fur Con. I know a few more that are gay or bi or transgendered (or a combination thereof) that wander NDK's halls, but it's not my place to point them out. Just to let you know they are there and you are definitely NOT alone.

Emily pointed out the "It gets better" website. Well I found a song & music video (thanx to Dan Savage) that is a pretty groovy (rockin'? bumpin'?) tune that speaks to the subject and is just good for anyone who was a weirdo in high school *raises hand*. Warning, the language is very NSFW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTQNwMxqM3E