Author Topic: Scanlations and Banishment!!  (Read 3692 times)

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Offline theMulti-Facets

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2010, 12:19:04 pm »
Some of us are on a very steep budget. :-/ A lot of things can be hard-to-get luxuries.
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Offline The Ronin

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2010, 12:50:37 pm »
Some of us are on a very steep budget. :-/ A lot of things can be hard-to-get luxuries.
I have 2 kids, rent, insurance and every other bill you can think of on one income. My budget is so tight I put in pennies and get back copper wire. Again, if you can't afford $10 then you shouldn't be reading it when it's widely available in our market.
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Offline MagRowan

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2010, 12:51:11 pm »
Some of us are on a very steep budget. :-/ A lot of things can be hard-to-get luxuries.

The public library is also a good source to get Manga from when you are on a tight budget.  They do carry quite a selection, and if your district doesn't have a particular title, they may be able to borrow from a nearby district for your to check out as well.  

In Colorado, a handful of libraries are linked through a system called Prospector that would allow you to easily check neighboring systems for manga they carry.
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Offline Jello

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2010, 02:14:16 pm »
If $10 is too expensive then that's pretty sad.
It's a valid argument for those who don't have a steady income..
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Offline The Ronin

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2010, 03:30:53 pm »
It's a valid argument for those who don't have a steady income..
No it really isn't. Like MagRowan said, there are other options like the library to get Manga for free legally. Otherwise if you can't pay to play, then you shouldn't get to play. The only time I advocate reading scan sites is for manga that isn't published for the american market. At that point you're not taking anything from the publishers because they're not putting money into that particular market to begin with.

And really, if I can come up with $10 to spend on myself every now and then, most everyone else can too unless they're homeless
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Offline theMulti-Facets

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2010, 02:43:04 pm »
It must be nice to be able to afford it. If I can buy it, I'll buy it, but most of the time, I'm SOL, and so are others. I'm not saying go out and download licensed stuff if it can be bought -or heck, even non-licensed stuff-, but c'mon, guys. Not everyone makes more than minimum wage.
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Offline gidastra

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2010, 10:32:17 am »
I'm okay with them shutting down those scanlations.  There are also places like crunchyroll who host it but charge a small monthly fee.  Also, I only ever used them to get a feel for a manga before deciding if I wanted to go and buy it.

And I agree with everyone else.  If you can't afford it, there are always libraries.
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Offline Kyuubi.is.a.frog

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2010, 11:15:53 am »
It was mentioned earlier by Rini, but what happens when a manga stops being published in the U.S. and the only way to continue it is throught Scanlations. I know, personally, that D.N.Angel appeared to be that way for a while, where manga chapters kept coming out online, but it took 2 years for book 12 to come out.

When a publisher (or production company, for anime as well), should people be allowed to watch/read them online?
The name issue at hand is that, most of the time, even though the company is not continuing the series, they still own risidual "copyrights" on the manga/anime in question?
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Offline Kyuubi.is.a.frog

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2010, 11:23:05 am »
As for the $10 being a lot, sometimes its more an issue of "would you rather?" I see $10 dollars and think "Manga, or dinner....?" Its really hard to keep buying manga when you have to make choices like that, because $10 is a lot to some people.

But I do agree that libraries are a good way to get a hold of some manga, but others are still hard to get a hold of when your library doesn't carry them. Prospector and InterLibrary Loans are wonderful and I have used them for many, many series.
But I've also had it where no matter how hard I try, I cannot get a hold of a particular volume or even a series, because Libraries don't carry them, or they have half a billion holds on them, or the Library decides (often randomly) to not send it outside of thier district.

There is also the issue of time.
I buy the Naruto series every chance I get, to keep up with the manga. Last NDK, for example, I bought 27 volumes. However, the chapters updated online are further than the books, and I enjoy keeping recent, so I read the newest chappies as they were updated. So how does this fit in with the idea of scanlations being bad?
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Offline Greg Hines

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2010, 03:00:13 pm »
As for the $10 being a lot, sometimes its more an issue of "would you rather?" I see $10 dollars and think "Manga, or dinner....?" Its really hard to keep buying manga when you have to make choices like that, because $10 is a lot to some people.

I don't think anyone has advocated going hungry so one can buy manga.

The fact of the matter is that manga publishing is a business like anything else. In order for manga to be made, a lot of people need to be paid: the author, the editor, the translator, the printer, the distributor, etc. The $10 you spend on that volume of manga helps pay salaries and royalties. And even if you take the printed book out of the equation, you're just removing one link in the chain; the chain is still there.

When you download manga from sites like these, you're saying "I don't want to spend money on this, but I still want the fruits of the labor of all the people involved in making it."

I'm not going to argue that downloading their work is like stealing money right out of their pockets. It's not; you weren't going to buy it anyway, so they're not losing something they would have had to begin with. But you're taking the product of all their hard work and creativity and giving them nothing back in return. It's a pretty lopsided equation.

So whatever happened to not getting something until you had the money to buy it? It used to be that if you didn't have enough money to buy something, you saved up until you had enough money and then you bought it. It didn't matter what it was; if you couldn't afford it, you had to do without. Sometimes that meant choosing among several things you want and only getting one.

But that's the way commerce works. It might not seem fair (e.g. you can't always get what you want), but the point isn't to be fair. The point is to compensate people for their hard work so they can continue to do that work and make the things you want. If you take away the idea of paying for the things you want, that entire process breaks down and people can no longer make enough money by creating the things that people want. (And it's one big reason why the anime and manga industries have had so much trouble lately.)

The problem that I see it is this: there's a sense of entitlement when it comes to intellectual property like manga, anime, TV shows, movies, etc. It's the attitude of "I can't afford it but I should be able to have it anyway." The internet has created a situation where anything you want is available any time you want it, even if you're not supposed to have it.

Rationalize it all you like, but by downloading manga from sites like these, you're still taking something you shouldn't have. Even if it's not licensed in the US. Even if you really want to read the latest issue. Even if it takes a while for a volume to come out. The fact remains the same: you're not supposed to have it but you're taking it anyway.

And that's the problem with these sites: they're giving away things that aren't theirs to give away. That's why they're being shut down and that's why you shouldn't be using them.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 03:04:13 pm by Greg Hines »
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Offline toadstoolssecretluvchild

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2010, 12:58:42 pm »
And that's why I love Greg Hines even though I act as if he's my mortal foe :P

I get tired of seeing and/or  hearing about people wanting things they haven't paid for. Maybe internet is mostly to blame if not totally, but that attitude is killing all types of aspects in entertainment whether it be anime, music, movies books, etc. It's getting to be ridiculous :-\

Offline Mahou Shoujo Michi

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2010, 01:32:56 pm »
Not only is it a sense of entitlement, but many people seem to have the mindset that they're "fighting the man" That the corperations are greedy and evil, so why should we line their pockets with even MORE money? It's like free downloading makes you a rebel hero, standing up for the underdog.
 'That artist is already a multi-millionaire and owns 3 jets! Why should she get money every time someone wants to listen to her song??"  

Here's another example: Movie theaters.  Recently I read on article that listed some of the more expensive things (I can't remember clearly..) One was mentioning the price of concessions at movie theaters, and how popcorn is sold at over a 1000% mark up.  In the public comments section, after staying home and renting netflicks, guess which was the most given advice?

Sneak food in.

When someone pointed out that movie theaters don't get money from ticket sells (or at least they get a VERY small percentage) and thus they have to jack up the prices on concessions in order to fund the theater and pay their employees, the response they recieved was akin to this:  "I don't care.  In that case they should work out a better deal with the studios instead of trying to rob honest people."

Offline Alitain

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2010, 07:05:37 pm »
Thanks Greg!  Entitlement is definitely right, people feel they should be able to get all the manga they want without any repercussion to themselves.  Tough.  Though I will admit a certain annoyance for series that are started but never finished.  Like Ninin Ga Shinobuden(Ninja Nonsense).  Three of the four volumes were released stateside.  I could probably go online and find the 4th translated if I wanted to.  And its tempting, though I've seen the anime so I was only getting the manga because I loved it so much.

And Kurohime, love the manga but it seems that it wont be published anymore though vol. 15 was set to come out but that wont happen I guess.  But it also seems like there's an official site the author's note mentions in vol. 14 to go continue reading and I haven't checked it out yet, but keep meaning to.

Either way though, people don't seem to care nowadays that they're stealing from the industry they love so much.  Vicious circle really, and a shame.

Though I will say something to michi about movie theaters.  I admit I'm one to sneak in a snack.  Not just because I wont pay for concessions almost at all, but mainly because I'll sneak in something that isn't offered there.  Just saying, there's perfectly fine reasons to bring your own food.  Or some will bring in carrots so they eat healthier.  I'm not one of those, why eat healthy at a movie!  It just seems absurb, haha!

Offline GimmeAnime

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2010, 05:08:40 pm »
*I was about to start this post out with "It used to be..." and suddenly struck me as the equivalent of pulling a cane out and setting back in my rocking chair*  :D

It's a shame that Honya is gone. Sometimes we'd find manga just by picking up Japanese Shonen Jump, Shonen Sunday, Nakayoshi, etc. and looking through and following whatever caught our eye. It meant you usually could only follow the visuals unless you were brave enough to sit down with a Japanese English dictionary and figure out key spots.  But we also found a lot of series before they were animated, like Yuyu Hakusho, or some series that never made it to anime. But the internet has kind of changed the dynamic.

Someone, somewhere needs to get on the Japanese companies cases about using the internet to their advantage. Maybe a flat subscription fee to access a site to read as much manga as you like, playing a bit off the Netflix/Gamefly model? Surely it would be less expensive for a publisher like Kodonsha to put their properties on-line than attempt to sell the rights to an American publisher who might go out of business?

Offline Kyuubi.is.a.frog

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2010, 05:14:22 pm »
Someone, somewhere needs to get on the Japanese companies cases about using the internet to their advantage. Maybe a flat subscription fee to access a site to read as much manga as you like, playing a bit off the Netflix/Gamefly model? Surely it would be less expensive for a publisher like Kodonsha to put their properties on-line than attempt to sell the rights to an American publisher who might go out of business?

This is actually the best solution I've personally heard yet.
Despite popular belief, Netflix makes a decent amount of money, as do the movie companies who sell them copies.
I would be completely willing to pay a monthly subscription fee to read manga online.
It also eliminates a lot of the time constraints traditional manga can present.
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Offline The Ronin

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2010, 06:53:36 pm »
It also eliminates a lot of the time constraints traditional manga can present.

Not to mention space constraints. I've sold a few good complete sets that I would have rather not because I needed the space on my bookshelves. (I needed the money too.)
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Offline Mahou Shoujo Michi

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2010, 08:36:43 pm »
Not to mention space constraints. I've sold a few good complete sets that I would have rather not because I needed the space on my bookshelves. (I needed the money too.)

Space! It's not free stuff that makes downloading tempting to me.  It's not having the latest issue right here right now!!  It's SPACE.  My Grandmother is a hoarder, and now my mom has a HOUSEFUL (a house she's no longer living at..) filled with old things, and I fear it may be genetic.  orz.  Buying that 38 volume series may help the industry but I worry about it being destructive to me.

I would glady pay subscriptions~

Offline -Gackpo-

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2010, 08:48:49 pm »
If $10 is too expensive then that's pretty sad.
it is if I'm following multiple series and buying all the books as they come out. You don't have to be rude.

Offline theMulti-Facets

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #58 on: September 12, 2010, 09:48:32 pm »
Thank you, Gakpo. ^n_n^

I'd pay a subscription fee to read manga in English at the publisher's official site, provided it was reasonable. I'm not as worried about space as some -I have room for one more bookcase in my room- but that would still be nice.
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Offline Hellsing365

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Re: Scanlations and Banishment!!
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2010, 12:20:25 pm »
I think I'm a rather honest pirate.  I'll download a ton of anime and manga.  If I get through it and think "That was amazing!" I'll put it on my list to buy.
I suppose I'm a downloader who looks at downloading more like a library?  I 'check out' anime and manga, and if I decide I want it, go purchase it at a later date.
I'd really like it if the scanlation sites (not onemanga ect) were allowed to keep running.  There are some manga that aren't, and probably will never make it to the states but if they do I'd buy them in a heartbeat, if I didn't have scanlations/fansubs I'd never know about them.

Just my two cents :)
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