Scanlations and Banishment!!

[Mahou Shoujo Michi]

One Manga was like my favorite place to go. D=

It really makes me a sad panda that it got shut down the way it did. I read manga there all the time, and still bought the books from the store when I could. I think there was no harm in websites like that at all. If anything, it opened my eyes to new and different manga that I wouldn't have found otherwise. So free advertisement for the artists! What could be so wrong about that?

While many people read scanalations and still buy manga, or watch fansubs and make sure to buy the DVDs when a series is licensed.  Many do not.  People have the mentality of "someone else will do it"

[Rippy The Nekomatta]

While many people read scanalations and still buy manga, or watch fansubs and make sure to buy the DVDs when a series is licensed.  Many do not.  People have the mentality of "someone else will do it"

This is why I don't download or even watch unless its sites that are sponored by companies like Funamation. It is the fact they do make money on how many people do log onto the site and it gets a series one step closer to being licensed. I think it is a shame that people still think they have to download it.

[intheschemeofthings]

While many people read scanalations and still buy manga, or watch fansubs and make sure to buy the DVDs when a series is licensed.  Many do not.  People have the mentality of "someone else will do it"

Okay, that's pretty lame. There should be a way we could still read manga from Japan, but still make sure we buy them when it comes to America. I mean....I need to know what happens in Naruto on a weekly basis.

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

We'll just have to do without. Also you don't need to know what happens to Naruto each week, you want to know what happens to Naruto each week, a very subtle difference between to two.  Although you're probably like me and are apart of that percentage that still buys the mangas as well. Just gotta make do without.

[rising full moon]

That's a pretty good idea. Maybe someone could set up an e-petition to Vis, tokyopop and the other companies?

maybe it could be started here

[Greg Hines]

maybe it could be started here

Our forum wouldn't be the appropriate place to host a petition, but we'd happily let you create a thread to promote a petition you created elsewhere.

That said, I think we're starting to stray a bit from the topic at hand, which is specifically scanlation sites being shut down.

[rising full moon]

Our forum wouldn't be the appropriate place to host a petition, but we'd happily let you create a thread to promote a petition you created elsewhere.

That said, I think we're starting to stray a bit from the topic at hand, which is specifically scanlation sites being shut down.

okay thanks for the info and sorry for straying

[-Gackpo-]

Sorry. People ignorantly throwing around something like the loss of a home and lively hood from something as devastating as a fire really pisses me off. I've watched my sister wake up screaming from a nap because she had a dream about it in the 10 minutes that she fell asleep.

So because your life has been hard everyone elses has to be as well? Thats what ive gotten from what you've posted thus far. i'm sorry you have had it rough, seriously, but at the same time its not just about you. Brutally honest yes, but honest at that.

[modbreak]Fixed formatting.[/modbreak]

[Greg Hines]

So because your life has been hard everyone elses has to be as well? Thats what ive gotten from what you've posted thus far. i'm sorry you have had it rough, seriously, but at the same time its not just about you. Brutally honest yes, but honest at that.

I don't think that's what he was saying. He took umbrage at the fact that someone was using a fire as an excuse for pirating manga, that's all.

[-Gackpo-]

I don't think that's what he was saying. He took umbrage at the fact that someone was using a fire as an excuse for pirating manga, that's all.

Ah I see. Sorry if I came off as mean. That's not my intention. I'm really just curious on this so humour me please. What makes reading manga from a library ok and online manga bad? I mean if you think about it both are free and both are widley available to the public. Also they were both paid for by someone in the beginning. Just wondering.

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

The difference?! One is legal and the other is not - to put it in the easiest form possible.

However, I think nowadays if a library were to become instituted in these years of people not really buying much and trying to find the easy ticket, there would be a lot of legal rulings and a ton more guidelines involved in the system. The use of the library has changed a lot over the years :/

[Mahou Shoujo Michi]

The difference?! One is legal and the other is not - to put it in the easiest form possible.

However, I think nowadays if a library were to become instituted in these years of people not really buying much and trying to find the easy ticket, there would be a lot of legal rulings and a ton more guidelines involved in the system. The use of the library has changed a lot over the years :/

I think that was the point.  They'e both close relatives, and yet one is legal, the other is illegal.  Here's another one, "travelling books" essentially it's where you take a book that you own and.. leave it somewhere like a coffee house, from there it's encouraged for the book to be picked up by someone else read, and left somewhere else. So a work is bought once, and then circulated for free amongst a large group of people.

[rini]

What makes reading manga from a library ok and online manga bad? I mean if you think about it both are free and both are widley available to the public. Also they were both paid for by someone in the beginning. Just wondering.

you just answered that at the end: one is paid for (libraries buy all the books they own), scanlation sites DO NOT pay. don't be under the impression that their copies are legally obtained. there's a reason why these sites are being shut down (including being triad fronts). you think triads are going around buying shonen jump off newsstands legally?

also, most publishers would LOVE to see libraries shut down, as they believe that libraries are taking money away from them. but, it's a time-honoured institution (you can thank good old ben franklin for that one), and they're never going away, thank the gods for small favours.

[-Gackpo-]

You say the manga is not legally obtained but I want proof of that. So far there have been no facts stated with proof to back them up. I have proof that reading manga from scan sites is legal. Us law states that as long as a person is simply veiwing the content online and not downlading or redistributing then there is no crime commited.

[allpowerfulbob]

Perhaps you haven't committed the crime by reading the site, however as you just stated the site you are reading it on has. By posting the manga on the web, they are re-distributing the copyrighted work. Thus by reading the site you are supporting that illegal activity. Whether they prosecute you or not you're an accessory to that illegal activity.

[Mahou Shoujo Michi]

:/ I personally get conflicted between the line of "I want to support the industry!" and "The industry is a bunch of greedy SOBs!" o3o

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

you just answered that at the end: one is paid for (libraries buy all the books they own), scanlation sites DO NOT pay. don't be under the impression that their copies are legally obtained. there's a reason why these sites are being shut down (including being triad fronts). you think triads are going around buying shonen jump off newsstands legally?

also, most publishers would LOVE to see libraries shut down, as they believe that libraries are taking money away from them. but, it's a time-honoured institution (you can thank good old ben franklin for that one), and they're never going away, thank the gods for small favours.

Rini pretty much just re-phrased what I wanted to say, which is why I love her ^^

Anywho It's not being greedy when you're work is being stolen. If you were a manga creator making 500k a year, making it big, and new there were dozen of sites scanning your books, I'm sure you would still be just as upset if you were only barely making 20k a year  :/ You'll hear a lot of  'know it all'  fans say things like the "Publishers are being greedy". And those are probably the types that don't wanna pay the 8-10 dollars for a book too

[rini]

:/ I personally get conflicted between the line of "I want to support the industry!" and "The industry is a bunch of greedy SOBs!" o3o

who is a greedy SOB? manga creators? the only 2 mangaka i can tell you are wealthy are rumiko takahashi and akira toriyama, and that's cos they were smart in the early 90's, got contract re-negotiated, and got cuts of merchandise sales. but, they STILL don't even own their own properties that they created. otherwise, even a mangaka like natsuki takaya (fruits basket), only make about $20,000-30,000/year, for working 80 hour weeks. ask your parents how much $20K/yr gets you when your apartment is $2K/month. this is also why lots of mangaka still live with their parents (like takaya-san does).

the publishing companies? perhaps you don't read financial times, or the wall street journal, or any other newspaper of that sort, because if you did, you'd know that published companies are BADLY in the red. no one's making money publishing.

american anime companies? do the names "ADV," "Geneon," "CPM," "Manga," "Syncpoint" sound familiar with you? cos, they were such greedy SOBs, making so much money, they're bankrupt and gone.

is it the japanese animation companies? again, unless you're reading financial times, you wouldn't know that japan has been in a recession since the early 90's. NO ONE'S making money in japan. the kids that came of age in the 90's are called "the lost generation" now, because they have no jobs, no chance of a real career, and are in their 30's living with their parents, working 2-3 part time jobs in unskilled labour. the only reason why studios like toei, madhouse, production IG, etc. are still kicking is cos they're surviving by putting out moe dreck that doesn't take actual time and money to animate.

what about the voice actors? are they the ones that are greedy? how about you _ask_ the voice actors that go to conventions how much they make. even the japanese big ones, like kappa yamaguchi or megumi hayashiabara. cos, i can tell you that they didn't make their money dubbing anime, they made their money with their music careers. but, ask someone like kyle herbert how much he makes? cos, i betcha that _i_ make more than american voice actors do, at least for dubbing anime.

so, again, begging the question, who's being greedy? the ppl busting their butts to create stuff, and getting paid barely enough to stay above the poverty line, or the ppl who demand this for free, and steal it?

[The Ronin]

I don't think that's what he was saying. He took umbrage at the fact that someone was using a fire as an excuse for pirating manga, that's all.

This.

From personal experience I was trying to point out the ignorance and ridiculousness in the idea that a fire was a valid reason for pirating manga. The last thing anyone that's lost their home and livelyhood in a fire is thinking about is keeping up with their manga.

Also, I'm trying to say that even because my life has had hardships I have continually chosen the right and legal path and that I am a better person because of it. Gackpo, if you thought you were being brutally honest, then you obviously didn't see the message behind my posts, and only made yourself look ridiculous in the process. Just because someone thinks they need the manga even when they can't afford it doesn't give them the right to download or read it off scanlation sites. If I can restrain myself and save up 2 or 3 dollars here and there until I have enough to catch up on my series then someone else can do the same.

I hear people complaining that there isn't any good new stuff coming out, (and I'm more and more inclined to agree) and it's because it isn't worth it to the artist's and publishers to try to sell something that someone else is going to give away for free

[Greg Hines]

You say the manga is not legally obtained but I want proof of that. So far there have been no facts stated with proof to back them up. I have proof that reading manga from scan sites is legal. Us law states that as long as a person is simply veiwing the content online and not downlading or redistributing then there is no crime commited.

Frankly, it doesn't matter whether the original scanned copies were obtained legally.

A library buys a copy of a manga then loans it out to one person at a time. There's nothing wrong or illegal about this; it's no different than if you bought a copy and loaned it out to your friends one at a time. These sites, however, take one copy and share it among many people at the same time. Because of the nature of digital files, you can create as many perfect copies as you want without requiring anyone else to give up their copies.

Your argument about it being legal to "simply [view] the content online" is wrong as well. Not only is it not legal to view illegally shared copyrighted content, in most cases you are creating a copy of the work just by viewing it. When you browse content online, it's often copied to a cache on your hard drive and displayed from there. If it's not stored on your hard drive, then it's stored in memory. And while these caches are ephemeral, you're still making a copy of the file in order to view it.

And if you think I'm crazy about this idea of making "copies," look at the Blizzard v MMOGlider lawsuit. Blizzard sued them for a DMCA violation because the program accessed an in-memory copy of the game. And Blizzard won. Just because something is only temporarily cached (even in memory) doesn't mean it's invulnerable to the DMCA.