Scanlations and Banishment!!

[rini]

oh, i should throw in some other bad news for manga lovers: DC (owners of CMX) has stopped publishing. no more tears of a lamb, or happy cafe, or swan. i really liked CMX cos they took a lot of chances and didn't bring out the usual shonen sunday stuff.

not fond of scanlation sites, i hate reading anything online anyway, due to my terrible eyesight, but it does make me sad when i start reading series and now i can't finish them =(

perhaps the end of CMX should be a separate thread?

[M.Mouse]

i personally think its wrong because i like to check out a manga before i buy it and also i find manga i like so much that i search all over for it to buy. Those sites are good ways to find good manga

[GimmeAnime]

The problem is, as the problem has always been, that the companies are behind the times. Fansubs could have been nipped in the bud if the companies had gone to streaming earlier. And publishing work on the web is much cheaper than actually having to put out a printed book, so I don't see why some of these companies can't put out some lesser known works on the web and/or available in e-book format.

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

I figured they would have started subscription sites a long time ago. The lesser known titles could be streamed on an e-site or something of that nature just to survey if it picks up or not. However, titles like Bleach and Naruto that do have the fan base, it's amazing how many of those fans dont buy the dvd or books, but rely on stream sites for the free buzz too. There's really not many fans buying the stuff needed to keep the publishers happy at all anymore. Even if it were a fee based e-comic site that only charged half the price of a printed book, I'd doubt there would be many who'd pony up. Something about anime fandom is strange sometimes that way. You dont see Marvel Image and Dc fans complaining about comics scanned freely online cause those fans no better, you gotta pay to play they say....and Marvel does cease and desist almost every day probably

[Greg Hines]

The problem is, as the problem has always been, that the companies are behind the times. Fansubs could have been nipped in the bud if the companies had gone to streaming earlier. And publishing work on the web is much cheaper than actually having to put out a printed book, so I don't see why some of these companies can't put out some lesser known works on the web and/or available in e-book format.

The thing is that the cost of printing and distributing a book is actually quite small. For publishers that print millions of books a year, it generally costs about a buck to print and ship a paperback book (two to three if it's hardcover). The real expenses are authors, editors, marketing, etc. (In the case of manga, it's paying licensing fees and translators rather than paying authors.) And because digital books command lower prices than physical books, printing costs are more or less taken out of the equation altogether--the publisher doesn't just pocket the difference. So publishers need to still sell roughly the same number of units to break even. And because so few people are buying digital books, relatively speaking, it would be harder for them to break even.

Unfortunately, digital books don't really create publishing opportunities that weren't there before. The incremental costs of each unit are smaller, but so are the revenues. If a book wouldn't make money as a physical product, it probably won't make money as a digital product.

[Rippy The Nekomatta]

The strange thing is I use the scanelations to decide whether or not I will buy the manga in the future, usually I test a manga for a few chapters, then use that as an idea to buy the manga in the store if I like it well enough. Why hasn't the publishing companies tried that yet? Its a good idea to just scan the first chapter or so into their own website and have fans go to their site to basically browse for free and then if they want the whole thing, they will have to break down eventually to go to the actual store to buy the full manga series.

I think that's a better way to handle it, other than just shutting down the websites like Mangafox and Onemanga, have the offers open to the fans to visit the company webpage and try it out there. I know its a bit dumb to suggest it, but it makes it a little better for both ends to come to an agreement.

As someone who does translation, the problem does stem from the fact that the people doing the translation also do not get paid for their services if it is on mangafox and onemanga.

Greg actually, in the cases of the Kindle, Nook, and whatever else is out there for digital books these days, it is a real market, and I wish some of the publishers didn't feel so threatened by it. The cost of a kindle or nook adobe book is about the same if not equal to the cost of a physical copy. The problems though is that some of the websites like amazon and Barnes and Noble like to make deals with the customers and make it look like the books on their products are cheaper, when they are not. You are still paying a publisher and such.

Maybe the publishers of manga should look into the idea of using the Kindle, Nook, and all other ebooks as a form of actually selling the products because in the future, wouldn't everyone have one?

[mastergods]

I like to read a little before buying to deside if its something I like or not. I have a whole box of mangas I thought I would that I just hated and or could not get into. I do see why these sites need to be shut down. Taking something that is not yours and giving it alway is wrong, (Even if you wanted to do the same story or same art years before someone else did it) I see it as a good and a bad. So what does this mean to all the people that go to barns and nobles or Brolders and read it for free there?

[Rippy The Nekomatta]

They will get kicked out of the stores, to be honest, some of the bookstores I have noticed don't like it when we just go in and read the manga without buying it. It isn't really fair in my view.

[The Ronin]

It drives me nuts when I'm tripping over some little teenager that's just sitting in the aisle 2/3 through volume 17 of a manga and obviously isn't going to buy it. I probably don't buy more manga just because there's ALWAYS someone freeloading in the aisle right in front of the books I was hoping to look at, and they act like I'm the jerk when I make them move. I think they should get kicked out. If you aren't intrigued enough to spend $10 within the first few chapters then put it down and move on. If you do want to keep reading after a few chapters, then BUY the book and stop ruining the spine for someone that will.

[mastergods]

I would love to see theose kids get kicked out. Or anyone who needs to read more then the firsts ten pages or so. As for ebooks. A lot of them have free samples so I tend to buy all my books from my Ipad.

[Alitain]

It drives me nuts when I'm tripping over some little teenager that's just sitting in the aisle 2/3 through volume 17 of a manga and obviously isn't going to buy it. I probably don't buy more manga just because there's ALWAYS someone freeloading in the aisle right in front of the books I was hoping to look at, and they act like I'm the jerk when I make them move. I think they should get kicked out. If you aren't intrigued enough to spend $10 within the first few chapters then put it down and move on. If you do want to keep reading after a few chapters, then BUY the book and stop ruining the spine for someone that will.

I love telling those people to move.  Anyone who sits in the aisle reading, regardless of whether its manga or not.  They do get annoyed, but yeah I very much do not care about stepping over them.  And its just fun to be like, "Look, there's chairs over that way, go park it there instead of being a pain in the ass by taking up space here."  Had one kid get snotty with me and tell me there weren't any chairs even though I had just come from that direction and saw a couple.  Told him so and told him regardless go sit over there against the wall where you aren't a traffic violation.

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

Anywho!

I think Japan's laws are just a circle of confusion. I cropped this from an AnimeNewsNet. Article -

"...Japan's Copyright Law prohibits unauthorized uploaders but had expressly allowed people to download for private use until this year. In June of 2009, the Japanese parliament passed an amendment that would make it illegal to knowingly download copyrighted material without authorization for the first time. The new law went into effect on January 1, 2010.

However, the Internet Watch website reported that the Japanese government's Agency for Cultural Affairs specifically stated in 2007 that watching an unauthorized stream from YouTube and similar video websites is not considered a prohibited "download," even under the legal definition of the term in the amended law. (Posting an unauthorized video online, on the other hand, was and remains prohibited.)

After the agency's pronouncements, the Gigazine website noted that YouTube users technically do download, if temporarily, a video file when they "stream." On the other hand, the Japanese copyright laws already had an exception to permit temporary file copies in browser and video player caches."...

It seems that one side wants to prohibit such acts and there's another thats trying to justify the reason for the ridiculousness :/

[Greg Hines]

Because both the US and Japan are signatories of the Berne Convention, each country is responsible for enforcing the other's copyrights. In the US, it's illegal to download copyrighted material without permission and that's the only thing that matters here.

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

I get that, but I meant in Japan. On side of their government condones it and the other sticks in the loopholes making it justified. It's their own country hurting their succession in this matter it seems

[Rippy The Nekomatta]

Sort of true, sort of not, most of the time, the Japanese artists and sometimes even animators are having trouble trying to get their form of media out to the West.

[RaeWolfDemon]

i seriously think the best thing to do would be for companies to have subscription websites... if they could release the translated version via their us subscribers site when the new issue comes out to the jp public there would be a lot less fraud I think.. i like having the obscure titles on line as well, and i would pay if they had a database with a bunch of their old and new stuff available. But im in total agreement on taking those sites down if it means preserving the industry.

[OverlordLaharl79]

Exactly; considering how things are more technoligical now then they were 5 or 10 years ago, it'd be like you're getting it for a good price. I also think that if people want to read a manga and can pony up the money for it, then bring it over.

[mastergods]

I read all my books on my Ipad now. It's a lot faster and easier to do. The prices are about the same. Some are cheaper by a buck or two. So digital will be a good way to go. A pay site opens the question "what do you pay to read?" do you pay a a fee and get to read all you want? Or pay pre manga?

[-Gackpo-]

Personally I love scanlations sites. There's alot of manga out there and most of what I read isn't in America. I get rini's point of learn the language but at the same time I read Chinese, Japanese and Korean stuff. That's alot of languages to learn just to read manga. Manga scan sites also get me into new series which I probably wouldn't discover without. So I think it would be better if the manga kas got some sort of pay for their works being on sites like mangafox or animea but in the end I don't want them shut down. Plus manga books are really expensive.

[The Ronin]

Plus manga books are really expensive.

If $10 is too expensive then that's pretty sad.