Announcing the 2011 Attendance Cap

[Jalakins]

While I do share the sentiment that the halls and rooms are crowded, I love the location for NDK. I feel like its just big enough for the single weekend, and the amount of events going on. I think that putting a cap on the amount of attendees was a good idea, because every year the con gets bigger and bigger. I've been attending since only 2006, but even I have seen a huge increase in attendees. However, a HUGE hotel or convention center would probably be annoying, just due to the fact that there isn't enough to see to justify all the money I'm spending and to justify the amount of walking and running around. I love the hotel we use now because, while we might be a little crowded, I feel like it is the perfect size. Now if only there were better places to eat closer to the hotel. xD

[starstreaker]

To add some info about the Crown Plaza DIA and Marriott Denver Tech Center:

Crown Plaza -  255 guest rooms and suites. Total 70,000 square feet of meeting space, of which, 50,000 square feet is the Convention Center

Marriott - 628 guest rooms and suites. Total 42,000 sq ft of total meeting space, uncertain how much is the Convention Center.

So, while the Crown Plaza has more convention space, the Marriott has more than twice the rooms.

[WhiteCrowCrafts]

Roksha, since you're not willing to read through the thread for answers to your comments, I would suggest being more courteous to members who have, and are willing to repeat the information for your benefit (like RoninEclipse2G. Thanks for the help, Ronin!).

As has been noted, we've allowed for plenty of growth before the cap. However one-Day Passes will still be sold onsite. When they're gone, they're gone. Though we'll make every effort possible to publicize the count, it's not an automated thing and we might not have the capability. That's why we're encouraging pre-registration. It's peace of mind, if nothing else.

Does this mean that we now can only buy 1 day passes onsite! Or... we can still come Friday and buy the 3 day pass for only $50. It still says on the Nan Desu Kan site that we can still do this.. :/

I just really do not want to spend $120, if I have to pay $30 all three days!

[WhiteCrowCrafts]

I'm not going to lie, I'm not sure if this will be a good rule or not. We will all find out when the convention comes, but it seems that it's just going to turn a lot of new people away. Plus it will just make a lot of people pissed that they cannot get anywhere without, being checked everywhere they go.

 I just hope it's not going to be a ton of people asking, then it's just going to feel like im being harassed threw out the entire weekend. I just hope not, cause then it's really going to ruin the fun, and how are they going to control that many people? I just want to enjoy myself there, but not having a ton of people looking for a badge or asking me. It's just really creepy.
I don't know... we will see how this works out.

[Jalakins]

You are required to wear your badge somewhere obvious on your body (convention rules), so I don't think you are going to get "harrassed" all weekend. If staff members can see your badge, they aren't going to ask you for it.

And weekend badges will still be sold at the convention. It counts towards each day's attendance cap. The purpose of the cap is really to get people to pre-register and plan ahead. Which isn't really a bad thing. NDK staff can prepare better if they know how many people will be attending the convention.

[Jinnie]

I just really do not want to spend $120, if I have to pay $30 all three days!

As it says on the site, full weekend passes are available for $50. If you only want to do one day (for example, some people just do Saturday), it's $30.

it seems that it's just going to turn a lot of new people away.

We've allowed for as much growth as we can, and will always have sales available at the door (not just pre-reg).

Plus it will just make a lot of people pissed that they cannot get anywhere without, being checked everywhere they go.

Con rules states that attendees are required to wear their badge in a visible area. They'll only get stopped if their badge can't be seen.

[WhiteCrowCrafts]

You are required to wear your badge somewhere obvious on your body (convention rules), so I don't think you are going to get "harrassed" all weekend. If staff members can see your badge, they aren't going to ask you for it.

And weekend badges will still be sold at the convention. It counts towards each day's attendance cap. The purpose of the cap is really to get people to pre-register and plan ahead. Which isn't really a bad thing. NDK staff can prepare better if they know how many people will be attending the convention.

Well I already know about the "have the badge out" a previous con that I tried out made this rule, but they were getting so annoying with this.  It got to the point where you would be just leaving your hotel room, and they would ask you if you had a badge. Also if you where taking a photoshoot they would interupt everyone and ask. So many people complained, and it was such a small con... lets just say this convention had to go back to a University because hardly anyone wants to go anymore.

I am just hoping that it will not turn out like this previous convention, that clearly went over board with the badges.

Lol, and it's not my first con I have been going to NDK for 6 years now, and have been cosplaying since I was 12, so I am pretty aware of how a attendance cap works. A lot of people are freaking out about it, but not reliezing that there has always been one. We as a convention have never hit that quota.

It's just the way that the staff member answered another question, that made me confused about the 1 and 3 day pass. I was unable to pre-reg this year, due to the fact that I was unsure if I was able to go or not.

So with the whole badge issue, I beleive that the staff members won't be asking every 5 seconds. The convention is pretty well organized each year, but it's just because this previous convention thats making me pretty worried.

[Jinnie]

Well, I'm not sure what convention you're referring to, but we're not affiliated with any other convention. I certainly hope your experience with another con won't color your opinion on us, especially before our event!

[WhiteCrowCrafts]

Lol, no it won't. Like I said, it's my 6th year going so I am pretty aware of what goes on with this convention.
I just hope there will not be that one staff member who is.. you know. Just gonna be a jerk about it.

[Jinnie]

This is our first year with a cap, so I expect there to be some learning moments. That said, if you experience rudeness from staff, please report it. We can't do much about hypothetical possibilities and/or complaints after the fact, but we can pull that staff member aside if we're made aware of a need during con.

[Sarge]

The majority of Badge checks will be done by my Security Staff.  We are a very select crew that have cultivated the utmost in professional efficiency and courtesy over the years.  We may be loud, but we are only rude if a life is in danger (obviously not the case for a badge check).  Your safety is our highest priority, as well as the safety of your investment in the convention.

I won't go over the reasons the Directors have given multiple times for the Cap.  But I will say this: WE ARE HERE FOR YOU.  Any of our staff who are rude or unprofessional will NOT be tolerated, and will be dealt with.  If you encounter a situation like this, report it to Ops.  We WILL hear about it.  We always do.  So don't worry!  Just come and have fun, and if you need anything, we'll be there.

[Alitain]

Just have to give a shout out(pun intended!) to you Sarge, you rock at every con.  And I don't mean the foundations with your voice when you yell, though I'm sure that's a close thing, haha.  Looking forward to another year!

[Sarge]

Just have to give a shout out(pun intended!) to you Sarge, you rock at every con.  And I don't mean the foundations with your voice when you yell, though I'm sure that's a close thing, haha.  Looking forward to another year!

Bah, don't spoil my reputation, or my crew will get ideas.  Thanks!

Now back to your regularly scheduled forum programming...

[Osias]

I am only continuing this discussion because I believe my original post about the topic was completely miss understood or not interpreted correctly from what I was trying to articulate.

Security isn't just patrolling for visible badges, a hotel key card will suffice to be in the halls.  So there's no reason to make a "chaperone only" badge, they have it all covered at NDK no worries.
-Alitian

Fair enough, I just thought a chaperone badge would make things simple, but I suppose they are not necessary.

As for the cap and chaperones, while not staff so can't say, I'm pretty certain unbadged, hotel card carrying chaperones aren't counted as part of the cap.  Thus they don't really affect the total.  As for risks of fire hazard and all...I'm certain you've seen the Marriott.  There's PLENTY of room.  Yeah alright hallways sometimes have quite a few people but I've never seen a hallway so crowded that if there was a fire there would be any significant peril.
-Alitian

This is actually exactly what I am concerned about

Suppose 50% of attendees are minors and each minor has a chaperone; suppose the cap is 75, 00 (Because the fire code cap of the hotel is 75, 00 people).

50% of 7500 is 37, 50

If only the minors but not the chaperons get counted that would be 37, 50 but a minor plus a chaperone would be 75, 00 people if the chaperones did not get counted at the people with badges got counted and reached the fir safety limit of 7500, but the chaperones without a badge to get counted the actual attendance would be 11250 or 50% over the cap

If the attendance if 50% over the cap set at fire code limit, the fire department, state, and federal government would care a great deal

And if the attendance in the hotel is 50% over fire code limit than it does not matter if that 50% over the limit is people in a panel or people in star bucks

Now all of my previous arguments have been based of off the assumption that the attendance is only counted based off of the amount of badges sold.

The previous scenario is what I thought of immediately after I read that chaperones did not need badges, I had not yet taken the time to consider other possibilities of how attendance may be counted. There is also the possibility that the staff has already thought of all of this and has gotten the attendance badge counting figured out.

Not to mention the simple fact is that charging a parent for a badge, even if they had a cheap price for a "chaperone badge" just to wander the halls or sit in the Starbucks would put off a lot of people.  It's unfair, the chaperone is basically paying to do...nothing.  Their kid gets to roam around and go to panels and events and enjoy the con while they have to stay in the halls or Starbucks and sit and wait.  Or follow until they go into a panel then stand outside or whatever.
-Alitain

I am 25 and not a chaperone but I will give your perspective credit. If I had to be a chaperone for a minor, who wanted to do something I was not interested in, I would consider it upsetting to pay full price for a badge to do something I am not interested in.

But I do not think it is entirely unfair to charge a chaperone a fee (maybe 5$ to cover the cost of the badge material) though chaperone may be doing something they do not want to do, it is their choice to decide to be a chaperone, and part of the responsibility of being a chaperone might be a monetary cost. (This is entirely a personal value of mine, and may be irrelevant to anybody else).

Now that I have given time to consider other perspectives, (on the subject I brought up) than my own, all I have to say is "Oh well never mind" < (that’s my personal phrase for telling myself to get over something and move on.

[Sarge]

Suppose 50% of attendees are minors and each minor has a chaperone....If the attendance if 50% over the cap set at fire code limit, the fire department, state, and federal government would care a great deal....

Osias,

We are nowhere near Fire Code or any other limit.  We track things like that quite carefully and always have it in mind.  Remember, we have all of the true statistics (and no, they aren't always shared publicly) and take them into account for all decisions.

For further concerns in this direction, please PM myself or a Director, and do not further it on this thread.

[Alitain]

I was about to say the same thing Sarge did, more or less.  While concern over fire code is understanable I never read anything about the attendance cap being made in any part really because of fire code.  Now it was an assumption on my part but I figured we weren't near the fire code limit thus it didn't matter that chaperones weren't counted because they wouldn't interfere with the attendance cap.  And Sarge just confirmed it really.  Again, no worries I'm sure everything will be fine in regards to chaperones and all.

[Greg Hines]

There will be a healthy margin between our capped attendance numbers and the fire code for the hotel's convention area. Moreover, the number of chaperones is nowhere near 50% of the number of paid attendees. We can't really track the number of chaperones, but I'm certain in saying that that estimate is off by at least an order of magnitude.

[Mahou Shoujo Michi]

On the note about chaperones, I have another question.

Do young Children count towards the cap?  And when I say young I mean babies-toddlers.

:/ While extremely young children no doubt make up an small % of NDK's population.. I REALLY hope they don't count towards the cap.  There's no reason for them too, as they're often brought out of necessity.  A two year old really can't enjoy the convention, family friendly or not, and no matter how adorable your baby girl is in her ChibiChibi cosplay, I would have to argue that her "space" in the cap list belongs to someone older.

[Greg Hines]

Do young Children count towards the cap?  And when I say young I mean babies-toddlers.

No.

[Mahou Shoujo Michi]

No.

=w=b Quite awesome, good to know.