Announcing the 2011 Attendance Cap

[SeraphicGemini]

Am I correct in saying that one of the biggest issues in regards to the attendance cap is overcrowding and being understaffed? So if we wanted to find another place, ideally we'd want one just big enough that the halls aren't over crowded and people aren't getting turned away from panels, but still within the budget.
Are hotels outside of Denver out of the question? There's an Embassy Suites right off of I-25 in Loveland with a huge event center. The hotel's convention space is about the same size as the Marriot, but use of the event center for Main Events would free up a lot of that space. It might be worth looking into, if it hasn't been considered yet. 

[Greg Hines]

It's about crowding, not staff or budget concerns. And no, I don't think we'd consider moving the con outside of Denver. Especially not to somewhere as far north as Loveland.

[Execdirec]

Am I correct in saying that one of the biggest issues in regards to the attendance cap is overcrowding and being understaffed? So if we wanted to find another place, ideally we'd want one just big enough that the halls aren't over crowded and people aren't getting turned away from panels, but still within the budget.
Are hotels outside of Denver out of the question? There's an Embassy Suites right off of I-25 in Loveland with a huge event center. The hotel's convention space is about the same size as the Marriot, but use of the event center for Main Events would free up a lot of that space. It might be worth looking into, if it hasn't been considered yet. 

In addition to that, the floorplan wouldn't work.  The space basically consists of three ballrooms. Take two of those out of the equation for both Dealers' room and Main Events, and we would have very little place to put our video rooms, panel rooms, Art and Model Shows, etc.

[SeraphicGemini]

In addition to that, the floorplan wouldn't work.  The space basically consists of three ballrooms. Take two of those out of the equation for both Dealers' room and Main Events, and we would have very little place to put our video rooms, panel rooms, Art and Model Shows, etc.

Well, like I said, the Budweiser Events Center next door would help with that, but I won't push the issue if you're not interested

[Alitain]

Can't say I wouldn't mind NDK being set up at the Event Center since I could then walk to NDK from my house...but yeah gotta go with NDK staff in that sadly it wouldn't work.  I think the only way to get the space would be to divide it between say the Event Center and one of the other hotels, which would probably be just a plain mess and not to mention the traffic issues trying to drive or walk around that area.  Though they do do the fair at the Event Center...there might be room...though no big I'm registered for NDK '11 and just awaiting the time to reserve a room so I'm good.

I still hope you guys roll with my idea to do baseball caps with some cheesy slogan like "Support the Cap!" for NDK '11, I think it'd be funny as hell.

[Rippy The Nekomatta]

It's about crowding, not staff or budget concerns. And no, I don't think we'd consider moving the con outside of Denver. Especially not to somewhere as far north as Loveland.

If you consider moving it to the Convention Center Down Town, that might pose a problem for many fans considering that Light Rail is not cosplay friendly, though some of the hotels are fur friendly due to RMFC and might be friendly toward cosplayers

[Lusha]

For the record, I like everyone else here love NDK, I love the con very much. But in my view capping the con is ridiculous.

1. Why not be a big con? Sure I do understand you all wana be a small town con still. But why not get your name out? Why not be big? AX was small like us, now its gargantuan as we know it today, same as Otakon. Why not be gargantuan as AX? That would make Denver one of the reasons to come for Otaku. NDK.

2. Sheraton would be perfect for us due to our growth. Too big is perfect since you all are expecting big numbers every year. More folks=More money.

Capping would be a wrong move on your guys area. That's some of my opinions on it.

Hello, everyone:

As we're sure you've noticed, NDK has grown rapidly over the last 14 years. Such growth has required us to make some decisions to maintain our small-con atmosphere. Part of what makes NDK special is the camaraderie of the attendees, staff and the friends we make along the way. We honestly believe that growing into a multi-hotel, large-scale convention would not serve our NDK community.

There has been a great deal of discussion on the forums, and I wanted to clarify our plan for the upcoming attendance cap.

Beginning in 2011 (not 2010!), we will institute an attendance cap. I want to stress that this decision was not made lightly. We have looked over logistical options, searched for other venues, and waited for 5 years for hotels that were never built, before making this decision. After exploring every possible option, we truly believe that this attendance cap is in everyone's best interest to maintain NDK's quality.

Question: Why not split hotels?

Splitting hotels in the convention world means that you have to have two venues of equal capacity (such as rooms for panels) within walking distance of each other. Why walking distance? Because having shuttles opens up new areas of cost, staffing, and most importantly: liability.

Of course, the size of the second venue is also important, which rules out the Hilton Garden Inn (a mere 4K of convention space, literally 10% of what we have right now). Why haven't we simply moved big events across the street? Because the space is not nearly as big as the room we currently have it in. We would be cutting the amount of space for a panel that is already packed in the largest ballroom the entire DTC has to offer. That would not solve our capacity issues.

In addition, we try very hard to keep things affordable for you while getting the guests, musical acts, and programming that you enjoy over the convention weekend. If we had to take out liability insurance and start running shuttles to a more comparable hotel like the Hyatt, we'd have no choice but to raise prices.

And even if we had a suitable hotel close by, another consideration is that you have to choose what event goes where. If you don't evenly distribute your popular events, you still end up with all of your people in just one hotel, while the other hotel is unpopulated. If we put something that wouldn't make people want to walk over there, what's the point of having it over there in the first place?

The bottom line: there are no rooms or venues around the DTC larger than what we are already in.

Question: Why not move to downtown Denver?

This is a much more complicated question. First of all, it's a safety issue. Our attendees are generally younger: about 15-18 years-old is average. The thought of thousands of kids alone on the light rail or walking past seedier areas of downtown is something that causes nightmares for our Board members. Also, some parents might not want their kids hanging out downtown alone, and therefore might not let them come. I get emails every year asking if the DTC is a place that I would leave a child, I can't imagine how people would feel about going downtown.

Secondly, there is only one hotel with feasibly larger convention space in the Denver metro area.  But it is actually too big for us. The Sheraton has about 133K of convention space (the Colorado Convention Center has around 580K... on one floor alone), and we currently use about 40K square feet now. In addition to putting attendees at the mercy of elevators, this means that we couldn't use all of that space. The hotel would inevitably (because they want to be profitable) sell the space to someone else, meaning we'd split the hotel with another convention. Who? That's another issue the Board worries about: what if it's an adult-themed con? Or what if it's another group that wouldn't appreciate thousands of anime fans wandering around the hotel? There are horror stories out there about clashes between different groups in the same hotel.  Friction like that is not good for anyone.

Parking is also an issue. Think we have problems now? Try finding free (or even affordable) parking close by in downtown Denver. The lowest that the Hyatt Regency (downtown hotel with dramatically less capacity than the Marriott) was willing to offer was $12 per day for parking and no less than $120/day for a room. The Sheraton demanded $25 per day for parking and $145 per day for a room. We even looked at returning to the Holiday Inn (70K convention space). Remember the evil, long hallway of doom? Though it has more space than the Marriott, we had numerous issues with the staff, food and hotel layout that would ultimately be very inconvenient for our attendees.

Bottom line: There is simply no other hotel in the area that allows us to offer a suitable amount of space at reasonable cost to our attendees.

More information on this will be posted after this year's con (which does not have a cap on attendance). We will address all of the little details of registration changes, pricing, and any other particulars you might be wondering about.

If you have specific questions or comments regarding this issue, please feel free to post them here. I will reply to every post.

This has all been talked through already..  Were running around in circles in this thread. 

[Greg Hines]

If you consider moving it to the Convention Center Down Town, that might pose a problem for many fans considering that Light Rail is not cosplay friendly, though some of the hotels are fur friendly due to RMFC and might be friendly toward cosplayers

I'm not sure where this came from out of the blue, but we're not moving the con downtown. We've signed a contract and we're staying at the Marriott through at least 2014. We'll revisit the situation then, but even so, the chances of us moving downtown are slim.

[Otakutaku]

Just wondering, but what were the numbers for NDK 10? It didn't seem TOO crowded and I was just wondering if I could get an idea of how many people that was.


ANYWHO:
I think I'm going to have to agree with the staff on the idea for a cap, nobody wants to go to ANY event that's overcrowded. With that comes issues with emergencies, fire codes, etc.

I'm sure you guys have been looking at the rate of growth for each year (Isn't data the greatest?) and NDK is probably getting to that point where we could have too many people within the next few events.

[Greg Hines]

Just wondering, but what were the numbers for NDK 10? It didn't seem TOO crowded and I was just wondering if I could get an idea of how many people that was.

We have the official counts but I don't have them in front of me. It was more than the previous year, but less than the attendance cap. We have room for roughly 10% more growth before we hit the attendance cap.

[Otakutaku]

We have the official counts but I don't have them in front of me. It was more than the previous year, but less than the attendance cap. We have room for roughly 10% more growth before we hit the attendance cap.

Interesting! Thanks for keeping us informed .

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

I agree with Ms. Lusha. But I suppose we should keep it running for any questions to avoid confusion

[The Ronin]

We have the official counts but I don't have them in front of me. It was more than the previous year, but less than the attendance cap. We have room for roughly 10% more growth before we hit the attendance cap.

Do you know what the average growth has been year to year? 2-3% or more? It would be nice to know how many more years we have before hitting the cap can be expected.

[Greg Hines]

We've got all those numbers written down somewhere, but I haven't had a chance to look at them for a while. Based on estimates from the last few years of growth, we suspect that if we don't hit the attendance cap at NDK 2011, we'll come very close. We'll almost certainly hit the cap for NDK 2012.

[Twelve]

Just to tack in my little notice here, I'm supportive of the NDK staff's decision to cap the convention. It's at a wonderful size now and it's good to know that I won't be flocked by people when I'm trying to find my friends in the already-large Marriot. As long as you register quickly, having to deal with the cap shouldn't be a big problem for a while. Can't wait for next year guys! ^_^

[Roksha]

I understand that it's necessary for this cap to happen, It just kinda stinks that my friends might not go because of not getting registered at the same time, im sure other people have the same issue, and the fact that if there will be day passes in limited supply on site then some people may get costumes drive up to Denver and wait 3-4 hours with the possibility that when they get to the front being told "we've run out" :/ Idk I just wish there was another way to solve the problems causing the need for a cap

[Greg Hines]

The easy solution to that problem is to pre-register. It'll save each of you $10 on the admission price and it guarantees you entry to the convention.

[Roksha]

I know but I know a lot of people who can only go for one day, hotels booked up and day pass is the only option a lot.

[The Ronin]

Roksha - If you take the time to read through the thread, you'll notice that the Directoral staff has left room for growth for a few years still. Even if we did manage to hit the cap this year it probably wouldn't be a concern until Saturday afternoon when we hit the absolute peak of attendance. As long as you got to the con early enough Saturday or came on one of the lighter attendance days like Friday or Sunday, there really isn't need for concern.

[Roksha]

Okay I'm 100% positive i'm not going to read through hundreds of comments for just a couple questions.

Anyway my question is directed to the admin greg if that wasn't already obvious

Is there going to be any announcements as to when you're getting close to the cap? just so we don't have to waste a trip, i want to make sure that it's still possible to get them in time.