Announcing the 2011 Attendance Cap

[Execdirec]

Last updated: 5/21/11

This announcement is also summarized on the main site.

The post below has been edited with all answers by ExecDirec and other staff members, up to the mentioned update date.

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Hello, everyone:

As we're sure you've noticed, NDK has grown rapidly over the last 14 years. Such growth has required us to make some decisions to maintain our small-con atmosphere. Part of what makes NDK special is the camaraderie of the attendees, staff and the friends we make along the way. We honestly believe that growing into a multi-hotel, large-scale convention would not serve our NDK community.

There has been a great deal of discussion on the forums, and I wanted to clarify our plan for the upcoming attendance cap.

Beginning in 2011 (not 2010!), we will institute an attendance cap. I want to stress that this decision was not made lightly. We have looked over logistical options, searched for other venues, and waited for 5 years for hotels that were never built, before making this decision. After exploring every possible option, we truly believe that this attendance cap is in everyone's best interest to maintain NDK's quality.

Question: Why not split hotels?

Splitting hotels in the convention world means that you have to have two venues of equal capacity (such as rooms for panels) within walking distance of each other. Why walking distance? Because having shuttles opens up new areas of cost, staffing, and most importantly: liability.

Of course, the size of the second venue is also important, which rules out the Hilton Garden Inn (a mere 4K of convention space, literally 10% of what we have right now). Why haven't we simply moved big events across the street? Because the space is not nearly as big as the room we currently have it in. We would be cutting the amount of space for a panel that is already packed in the largest ballroom the entire DTC has to offer. That would not solve our capacity issues.

In addition, we try very hard to keep things affordable for you while getting the guests, musical acts, and programming that you enjoy over the convention weekend. If we had to take out liability insurance and start running shuttles to a more comparable hotel like the Hyatt, we'd have no choice but to raise prices.

And even if we had a suitable hotel close by, another consideration is that you have to choose what event goes where. If you don't evenly distribute your popular events, you still end up with all of your people in just one hotel, while the other hotel is unpopulated. If we put something that wouldn't make people want to walk over there, what's the point of having it over there in the first place?

The bottom line: there are no rooms or venues around the DTC larger than what we are already in.

Question: Why not move to downtown Denver?

This is a much more complicated question. First of all, it's a safety issue. Our attendees are generally younger: about 15-18 years-old is average. The thought of thousands of kids alone on the light rail or walking past seedier areas of downtown is something that causes nightmares for our Board members. Also, some parents might not want their kids hanging out downtown alone, and therefore might not let them come. I get emails every year asking if the DTC is a place that I would leave a child, I can't imagine how people would feel about going downtown.

Secondly, there is only one hotel with feasibly larger convention space in the Denver metro area.  But it is actually too big for us. The Sheraton has about 133K of convention space (the Colorado Convention Center has around 580K... on one floor alone), and we currently use about 40K square feet now. In addition to putting attendees at the mercy of elevators, this means that we couldn't use all of that space. The hotel would inevitably (because they want to be profitable) sell the space to someone else, meaning we'd split the hotel with another convention. Who? That's another issue the Board worries about: what if it's an adult-themed con? Or what if it's another group that wouldn't appreciate thousands of anime fans wandering around the hotel? There are horror stories out there about clashes between different groups in the same hotel.  Friction like that is not good for anyone.

Parking is also an issue. Think we have problems now? Try finding free (or even affordable) parking close by in downtown Denver. The lowest that the Hyatt Regency (downtown hotel with dramatically less capacity than the Marriott) was willing to offer was $12 per day for parking and no less than $120/day for a room. The Sheraton demanded $25 per day for parking and $145 per day for a room. We even looked at returning to the Holiday Inn (70K convention space). Remember the evil, long hallway of doom? Though it has more space than the Marriott, we had numerous issues with the staff, food and hotel layout that would ultimately be very inconvenient for our attendees.

Bottom line: There is simply no other hotel in the area that allows us to offer a suitable amount of space at reasonable cost to our attendees.

More information on this will be posted after this year's con (which does not have a cap on attendance). We will address all of the little details of registration changes, pricing, and any other particulars you might be wondering about.

If you have specific questions or comments regarding this issue, please feel free to post them here. I will reply to every post.



Additional answers from throughout this entire thread are linked below for your reading convenience.
Click here to see answers for the following topics.
What would be the attendance cap? (7,500 for attendees only)
Why not be a big con?
More info about why the Sheraton is not a suitable option.
We still have wiggle room, but pre-reg is the way to go from now on.
Click here to see answers for the following topics.
If there's a viable alternative in the future, is this a permanent decision? (No)
How is this gonna affect the day passes and pre regging?
Will there still be pre-registration on site for next year like you guys do one the last day of the convention?
Click here to see answers for the following topics.
No paper pre-reg.
Previous con attendance stats and further number clarification.
Why is the Holiday Inn not an option?
Click here to see answers for the following topics.
Don't have a PayPal account?
Don't have a credit or debit card?
More PayPal info.
Click here to see answers for the following topics.
What if people sneak in without a badge? (People without badges will be asked to leave)
What about server issues?
Is pre-reg available? (YES!!)
What about passes for single days? (Available for purchase at-con).
More attendance stats.
Stats example and single-day passes explanation.
GregHines explains server capabilities if a high number of people try to pre-reg at the same time.
In short: our server is awesome, and our web team is awesomer. No worries necessary.
How about the Broadmoor?
More info on why downtown is not a good idea.
Click here to see answers for the following topics.
Clarification on badges required for everyone.
Read the thread before posting, your question has probably already been answered/addressed.
How NDK is organized.
A select number of 3-day Badges will be available on-site, but pre-reg is still highly encouraged.
We'll always be willing to consider other options if some become available.
Trying to sneak without buying a badge? Our security has great memories.
Even more clarification about badges being required at all times, by everyone.
This rule is in place to prevent people from wandering the convention floor without a badge.
Can we get rid of the badge shown in the hall rule?
No.
Duplicate Badges/What if Badges are lost?
Pre-registrations are not a "small fraction" of the cap
Do young children (5 years and younger) count toward the attendance cap?
No.
We're not moving the con to another CO region.
Loveland Regency Suites doesn't have a suitable floorplan.
We're contracted to stay at the Marriott through at least 2014.
We have room for roughly 10% more growth before we hit the attendance cap.
We'll almost certainly hit the cap for NDK 2012.
Pre-register, save $10 and have guaranteed entry

[Lusha]

What would be the attendace cap?  2000? 500? 700000000?

[nemisis47]

For the record, I like everyone else here love NDK, I love the con very much. But in my view capping the con is ridiculous.

1. Why not be a big con? Sure I do understand you all wana be a small town con still. But why not get your name out? Why not be big? AX was small like us, now its gargantuan as we know it today, same as Otakon. Why not be gargantuan as AX? That would make Denver one of the reasons to come for Otaku. NDK.

2. Sheraton would be perfect for us due to our growth. Too big is perfect since you all are expecting big numbers every year. More folks=More money.

Capping would be a wrong move on your guys area. That's some of my opinions on it.

[John]

What would be the attendace cap?  2000? 500? 700000000?

I'm thinking it may depend on this years numbers, though I may be wrong.

[Landstander]

What would be the attendace cap?  2000? 500? 700000000?

OVER 9000!!! - I know the joke is dead but I couldn't resist :p

Just to throw in my two cents, I am in full agreement with the staff on this one. I have read the arguments for and against and feel the con is making the right decision. It is better to cap and ensure the safety and happiness of the guests that do attend than it is to move to a different venue so that more people can come.   

2. Sheraton would be perfect for us due to our growth. Too big is perfect since you all are expecting big numbers every year. More folks=More money.

I don't understand your logic here. The con isn't about money, and it doesn't seem to be their money they are worried about, but rather they seem concerned that some of the con goers might not have the financial ability to attend a con where the room, parking, food, and possibly badge price is any higher. the bigger space at the Sheraton might sound nice, but like they said it would most likely mean sharing the hotel with a another event. I saw a con that had to share space with another event once, and remember watching how poorly a wedding and a anime convention mesh.

I just wanted to let the staff know that not all feed back is negative. I love the con and support the staff 100% in this endeavor

[WafflezelffaW]

I know that pre-registering is always a way to go. But, I can't always pre-register so I like registering when I get there. I find that capping the attendees is not a good way to go. What if some one didn't know about the cap and shows up all excited and you guys turn them away. Also, there will be way more people floating around with badges because they were not there in time to get one. Also, it might make people want to stop coming 'cause what if they can go, but, most of their friends can't they wouldn't want to go. I find this is a terrible thing to do because, instead of making it less crowded it might make it empty.

[Execdirec]

What would be the attendace cap?  2000? 500? 700000000?

The cap would be at 7500.  This gives us room enough to grow for this year, but not go farther than the hotel can accomodate.  This number only includes attendees- not staff, guests, dealers or press members. 

For the record, I like everyone else here love NDK, I love the con very much. But in my view capping the con is ridiculous.

1. Why not be a big con? Sure I do understand you all wana be a small town con still. But why not get your name out? Why not be big? AX was small like us, now its gargantuan as we know it today, same as Otakon. Why not be gargantuan as AX? That would make Denver one of the reasons to come for Otaku. NDK.

Why not be a big con?  It's a question of resources and demand:

We are a non-profit organization, with a limited budget, and also a limited number of staff willing to do it.  To increase in size would mean that we need more staff, more income, and more equipment.  As it stands right now, we are at the limit of what we can ask our staff to do as volunteers.  They do this in their spare time as a labor of love, and because they want to put on a good show for all of you.  Stretching them too thin means that this becomes a not-so-fun venture, and many of them already put in more time year round than you would expect.  This is especially true now that we have NDK NYE to think about. 

Equipment is another matter.  We currently own the majority of the equipment that is used at NDK, and also NYE.  To increase to a space that is literally three times the size of the place we currently inhabit, we would have to purchase a new plethora of equipment.  This means we would be forced to raise your costs to pay for all of this.  We have stated several times that we want to make NDK affordable to everyone, and this would mean that the purchase of a badge would be cost prohibitive to some. 

Here's another problem: Demand.  Just because we move into another hotel, does not mean that we magically get more people to do panels.  As we have stated before, about 80% of our panels come from you guys, and your limitless creativity.  Sometimes, we are unable to fill the rooms we already have right now. A larger space would make our programming thinner, more spread out among larger spaces.  

Finally, I would like to point out what I like to call the 'heart' factor.  If you split hotels, or move into a larger hotel, things start to get impersonal.  You are suddenly required to have tickets for autograph sessions, and forced to wait in line for far longer than what we have right now at the Marriott.  I do not want things to get impersonal for NDK, and neither does the Board of Directors.  We pride ourselves in caring for each and every one of you, and ensuring that you enjoy your convention weekend to the fullest. If there are more of you guys, and not enough of us to take care of you, we can't give you the attention that we want to provide.

2. Sheraton would be perfect for us due to our growth. Too big is perfect since you all are expecting big numbers every year. More folks=More money.

Respectfully, I beg to differ.  I have personally considered the Sheraton over the past 6 years since being named Director, and through many incarnations of the Board, we have come to one conclusion: The Sheraton would increase our problems.  I actually toured the Sheraton last year, after their renovations, and still remain unmoved by the actual functionality of the space.  The only positive thing they have to offer us is more square footage; and indeed, it is too much space. 

First of all, we could not possibly use all of the rooms in the Sheraton so we would be double booked with another event.  I'm sure that some of you have run into this with other conventions around the country.  I personally remember one con that was sharing space with both a Gospel Church, an adult-themed group, and a wedding.   Needless to say, it was uncomfortable, and did not end well for either group.  

Secondly, consider the logistics of a hotel that size.  They have no less than 6 different floors of convention space.  To even duplicate a larger layout than what we have now would mean we would have to pick and choose different rooms from different floors.  This means elevator congestion- even more so than we have now just to get to the convention space.    Also, our staff (at our current size) could not feasibly control that much space on that many floors, and I've already elaborated on why this is an issue.  

Even with all of that, it does not solve the largest problem of all: Cost.  

For Attendees:
$145 a night for a single occupancy hotel room.  With another $25 per person in the room.  For one night. This was the price quoted for last year- the prices have most certainly gone up by now.  Perhaps some of our attendees can afford that, but not all of them.  I will not let people be left out because of price.

Also, our costs would go up too.  We can afford a nice hotel like the Marriott because we sell out the hotel every night of the convention. That basically cuts our cost for the convention space down to a minimal level.  With the Sheraton, we would not be able to sell out the hotel, or use all of the convention space, which means that we would be looking at an increase of at least $50K in just paying for the space rental.  That kind of cost increase for us means a cost increase for you all too.  We want to avoid that if at all possible for as long as we can.  

This still does not fix the problem of being in downtown Denver- please refer to the section where I addressed why we will not be moving downtown anytime in the near future. 

I certainly appreciate your thoughts on this matter, so keep them coming.  I hope you all know that the Board does not come to these decisions lightly.  There have been many hours of debate on this issue, and ultimately, we want what is best for the NDK community.  We care very much about what you think, and we want to answer any questions that you have about this.  

[Execdirec]

OVER 9000!!! - I know the joke is dead but I couldn't resist :p

Just to throw in my two cents, I am in full agreement with the staff on this one. I have read the arguments for and against and feel the con is making the right decision. It is better to cap and ensure the safety and happiness of the guests that do attend than it is to move to a different venue so that more people can come.   

I don't understand your logic here. The con isn't about money, and it doesn't seem to be their money they are worried about, but rather they seem concerned that some of the con goers might not have the financial ability to attend a con where the room, parking, food, and possibly badge price is any higher. the bigger space at the Sheraton might sound nice, but like they said it would most likely mean sharing the hotel with a another event. I saw a con that had to share space with another event once, and remember watching how poorly a wedding and a anime convention mesh.

I just wanted to let the staff know that not all feed back is negative. I love the con and support the staff 100% in this endeavor

Thank you Landstander, I appreciate your thoughts and well wishes!

I know that pre-registering is always a way to go. But, I can't always pre-register so I like registering when I get there. I find that capping the attendees is not a good way to go. What if some one didn't know about the cap and shows up all excited and you guys turn them away. Also, there will be way more people floating around with badges because they were not there in time to get one. Also, it might make people want to stop coming 'cause what if they can go, but, most of their friends can't they wouldn't want to go. I find this is a terrible thing to do because, instead of making it less crowded it might make it empty.

Just for the record, we intend to broadcast to the entire world that we are instituting an attendance cap for NDK 2011 at NDK 2010.  Specifically at opening ceremonies, closing ceremonies, cosplay, AMV's, and our larger panels.  The reason we want to do this is so we can reach as many people as possible.  Trust me, by the end of NDK 2010, you will be sick of hearing about the attendance cap.

I hardly think the attendance cap will make us more empty.  7500 people is more than we had last year, and might be a bit more than we get this year.  It still gives us a little wiggle room, but not so much that we go over the capacity of the hotel.  Unless we suddenly have 9000 people show up all at once, we should be able to accomodate most that want to come to NDK. 

Preregistration is definitely the way to go from here on out- if you can't there should still be badges available onsite too.  Just not as many as before. 

[nemisis47]

How is this gonna affect the day passes and pre regging? Meaning the con will be capped so day pass folks won't come in and experience our con themselves.

As for the point about the sheraton you just made, I do see your point that other normie folks would clash with our event. As in the wasabi con wedding fiasco in 09.

And for the record before it gets out of hand, I am not bagging the con at all. I love NDK and am really concerned about this as everyone else may or may not be.

[Lx]

Wow definitely a tough choice indeed. I know you guys looked at all the options here. You definitely have done your research. I still hope this a last resort. Our anime cultured community in Colorado has grown so tremendous and it looks like this will prevent growth. I hope if an alternative appears in the future it will be considered.

Thanks for all that you do. ^_^

[Daft Punk]

You are my hero for saying that Haha! ITS OVER 9000! anyways...
I guess a cap would be ok in some ways but as long as its not any lower than 3000 or so...

OVER 9000!!! - I know the joke is dead but I couldn't resist :p
...

[shadow_01_2]

now will there still be pre-registration on site for next year like you guys do one the last day of the convention?

[Execdirec]

Wow definitely a tough choice indeed. I know you guys looked at all the options here. You definitely have done your research. I still hope this a last resort. Our anime cultured community in Colorado has grown so tremendous and it looks like this will prevent growth. I hope if an alternative appears in the future it will be considered.

Thanks for all that you do. ^_^

Thank you for your thoughts. ^_^  You actually brought up something that I meant to say in previous posts:

Just because we are doing this now, does not make the decision permanent.  If another venue appears, the Board will take it under serious consideration.  We understand the challenges we have in the Marriott right now, and there is constant discussion about how to mitigate them.  

I guess a cap would be ok in some ways but as long as its not any lower than 3000 or so...

The number for the attendance cap will be 7500.  This includes attendees only.  If we only allowed 3000, there would be many massively unhappy people about.  

How is this gonna affect the day passes and pre regging? Meaning the con will be capped so day pass folks won't come in and experience our con themselves.

now will there still be pre-registration on site for next year like you guys do one the last day of the convention?

We are still ironing the kinks out of how we are going to do things to institute the attendance cap.  We certainly have a clear picture of what we want to do, but would rather have something set in stone before announcing it to the world.  I would expect that we will make a full announcement at the convention. ^_^

EDIT:

We will be announcing changes to registration policies (that we will be making for the attendance cap) after reg closes for this year to avoid any confusion.  Keep your eyes to the 'announcements' area for that info in late August. 

[Lusha]

With a number like 7500, I think, actually , that that would be a pretty reasonable number.  It would indeed stil give the con growth room, and it woujld also still insure that every one would have a fair chance to catch the chance to go and every one would have fun.  even last year at 09, a few of the rooms were getting a little crowded.  Over crowded rooms are a fire hazard as well as it takes some fun away.  I have to thank the staff for their on going efforts to ensure that all of us have a good time.  and Tony, dont forget that NDK has a lot of money sent off to different charities.  It is some thing that you usually forget about, but it is still true.

[ImaNoodle]

Bleh Dx
Yay caps...(sarcasm)
Oh well, just means I have to preregister x.x

[Alitain]

You know, its kind of a shame that we have gotten to this point of capping attendance.  Not to mention to some degree it brings about a worry of whether or not I'd be able to get in, I mean if hotel rooms are any indication, you have to be right on the ball to get one before the Marriott sells out.

Especially if we can no longer pre reg at the con for next year, if it comes to that.  Which I know is all speculation and I definitely will be waiting to hear the news at NDK about that since I always pre reg so I never have to worry about forgetting to register.

But its understandable how things are going, I wish there was an affordable, reasonably placed and priced hotel to use but well there isn't, so we all have to make due right?

[rini]

another thing worth pointing out about the sheraton (the old adam's mark, for all those that old to remember): the denver county court is currently housed in that hotel. convention attendees, at least on friday, would be dealing with court functions. this could be troublesome, to say the least. you can't say, "all convention attendees can't go by the cherokee intersection" because of the court. that's just unreasonable. but, i can tell you that the county court judges, sheriffs, and officials would _not_ be happy.

[Masurao Tsukino]

I personally like the cap, I think it is a nice way to make sure that we dont have problems with certain things, and as long as it gives us room to grow I see no problem with it, when it starts to cause us to suffer more than aid us, then I might see a problem. But I usually book a room through the hotel, and pre-reg around October, so there shouldn't be much problem for me.

Also I will definitely be keeping my eyes open about individual days and such for next year, because my brother likes going, but he is usually very busy on Fridays and Saturdays, so it would be nice for him to know about the changes and such to 2011

[Dodrio]

Wowee, tough choice for sure, but the right one, I think. A lot to take in on your guys' part. I commend you, certainly, for taking on such a task as this, haha.

But how many people pre-register? And how many on Sunday of the convention the year before? I saw it brought up. I may be wrong but if I remember correctly, I pre-registered for NDK 2009 on Sunday around 4:50pm of NDK 2008. I was number 600 something. (Or maybe I'm way off and I'm just going crazy.) If so many people register just at the convention itself the previous year, I imagine it will be almost a nightmare trying to guarantee a badge as it gets closer. But I guess that all depends on if they keep at-the-con pre-registration open this year. Which, personally, I really hope stays open. Lower prices and a weight off your shoulders knowing you don't have to worry about it later. I assume the decision to keep/toss at-the-con pre-registration will be made before this NDK...?

7500 is a good number of attendees, I think. It was packed this past year. I can't imagine it this year, and without the cap, I wouldn't be able to imagine it 2011 either. It'll keep the hallways flowing. But yeah, for all of the people who get knocked out because of the cap. That kind of disappoints me. I haven't looked it up and I don't constantly browse these forums, but how does NDK do the attendance count? Is it a warm-body count, or do they number it by how many 1-day, 2-day, 3-day badges are sold? And if it's a warm-body count... how is that going to work with the cap? What if 7500 is hit Friday, but 100 or so of those only registered at the door for a Friday badge and then don't attend the rest of the weekend? Will the other 100 people who could have registered the rest of the weekend for a 2-day badge, etc, be kept out? I'm sure it's been thought about... but, eh. My curiosity stands.

I saw it brought up about NDK becoming a huge con like AX or Otakon. To be honest, I would love for NDK to become a huge con. It's already big to me, seeing as the only other conventions I attend are Wasabi and then little 2000 people or less conventions. Sure, it can be a small-town con, but it's been growing for some time, and I'm pretty much sure it's not the small-town con it used to be. I began attending 2007, and it was already big then.
I guess I would personally love for it to keep growing to become a big convention, but if there is no place for it to go... well. :\ Who knows where it could go, and I guess, now we never will know with the cap. I just hope some time in the not-too-distant future, another venue appears for us to occupy and lift the cap for. I hope one day we can make the transfer to the Convention Center... but at this point, I know that's sort of a stupid move because it's so big, haha.

Hopefully this all goes well.

[nemisis47]

Well 7500 is a really reasonable number. Though I said it was dumb, we will have to wait and see next year. It may do more harm than good or it may be something that is necessary til NDK finds a better home. Til then folks, it seeme the Mariott will be our home away from home.