Facts & Identification of Pirated Anime, Bootlegs, etc.

[George]

A good chunk of the Weiss Kreuz CDs are available from CD Japan, and I would also assume amazon.co.jp.  I've had good luck ordering from both.
Here is the link to the search for these on CD Japan.

And, to bring this back to the "identification" topic of this thread,
I'll also use these vendors as a first-pass check on legitimacy.  If either of these list a CD or DVD (I'll check by part number), then I'll call it legit.  I've never known them to sell bootleg goods.

[Greg Hines]

The short answer: Fansubs are bootlegs. What actions you take based on that are up to you.

[Greg Hines]

In this country, we have something called the first-sale doctrine. It grants the buyer of a copyrighted item (e.g. a book, CD, or DVD) the right to sell that item to someone else. The copyright holder is compensated for the original purchase, so there is no theft, no infringement. This has been upheld in court a number of times over the years.

As usual, Wikipedia has more information on this topic than I do:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Suffice it to say that there's absolutely nothing illegal, immoral, or wrong about any of the things you mentioned.

[GimmeAnime]

That's a whole different kettle of fish, as my grandmother used to say.

Bootlegs are illegal copies. The term came from Prohibition when people used to smuggle flasks of illegal alcohol in the leggings of boots. A used legal item is not a bootleg. It is simply used. You said that the selling of used books would be bootlegging, but it's not. It would be a bootleg if someone other than the publisher, say, scanned the book and sold the PDFs to people or created printed copies (much more cost prohibitive, mind you) without permission.

The used market has been a problem that many publishers, book, game, DVD, and otherwise, have been struggling with for years. This is why new editions come out with changes all the time. This is why game developers have been trying to find a way to get people to buy the original games rather than used. But it's not the same problem as a bootleg. Each used copy represents a sale that benefited the company. A bootleg has never benefited the original company at any point.

And to turn your question on it's head: If an anime fan can't afford the DVDs & CDs, then why are they in anime at all?

The answer is nuanced, not a simple "yes" or "no". It's a matter of being smart with your money. You wait for a sale on this, you buy used for that. You try to be a smart consumer. As with everything else, you are not required to even look at everything that comes down the pipe.

If there is a movie coming out, you don't need to download a copy to see if you want to go see it in the theaters. You look at trailers, you read reviews, you check the actors, directors, and producers, see if you like the genre and then you decide to go see the movie or not. Sometimes you decide that you'd only kind of like to see it. So you go to a matinee or wait till it gets to the cheap theaters. Or wait to rent it on DVD. And all of these options are legal and they benefit the original company.

If people don't buy from MY store, then how do I get paid?

And with that, you know how every anime producer and every anime store owner feels.

[Rippy The Nekomatta]

I do have a question about this, well, a few friends gave me gifts which I suspect are bootlegs, should I just return them to these friends and never talk to them again?  I mean I don't want to seem rude or anything. I was told to tell my friends that what they gave me were bootlegs.

[Greg Hines]

That's kind of a touchy subject. On the one hand, it's hard to criticize a gift that someone bought for you, but on the other hand, your friends may continue to buy you bootlegs if you don't say something about it. That said, I think most friends would understand if you brought it up... maybe they just didn't know any better and wouldn't have bought the bootlegs had they known.

[Rippy The Nekomatta]

Good point, I'll talk to them about it when I have the chance. Thanks.

[Opinionated Fish]

I suppose a few quick ways to determine the legitimacy of an anime product is to look for the copyright information and so forth. Also, be very wary of cheap products. For example: The Anime DVD Store in Denver Colorado sells bootlegged hentai for $9 with obviously printed line notes. I have even seen bootlegs of domestic movies like Avatar and Tron at the store. I think the owner makes many of these bootlegs himself.

For merchandise, almost all legitimate keychains/figurines/wall-scrolls come from Great Eastern, Diamond Comics, and a few others. I think we should be listing legitimate US distribution companies as part of the main post in an effort to inform people about it. Any wall scroll without copyright information on it is very likely a bootleg. If the product number starts wuth anything other than GE (for Great Eastern) than it is a bootleg as well. The worst thing is the horror stories I have heard about the Anime DVD store. The posters at the store go for about $13 but -since they are not legitimate- the store is only paying about $1 to $2 to get them in. The wallscrolls are not legitimate and the store is probably charging 3 times the wholesale to you, the unwitting customer.

When you buy bootlegged products, you are being ripped off. End of story.

Now, in Colorado Springs, there is a store called Rainy Day Anime and I went to visit them recently. They carry legitimate products and have reasonable prices. I just wish there was a legitimate store front in Denver which carried ONLY legitimate products, and did not look like the underside of a bridge. Complete with troll.

I wouldn't mind a PM from GA, actually. I would like to know what the feasability of a store would be in Denver, Aurora, Englewood, or Littleton. We need a safe, better, and legitimate place for anime fans to go between conventions. If you're Morse, I'd love to talk feasability.

I think there is a bit of a distinction between fan created artwork sold at conventions and bootlegging. If you TRACE your artwork, than you are stealing. If you drew it yourself, make the distinction that it is your own artwork, and sell it in a legitimate function like the NDK artists alley.. you should be fine. Remember that homage and parody are legitimate uses. I would actually encourage people to apply Creative Commons to their artwork and creations. All the pictures I take of people with Squishy are under Creative Commons with attribution and notification. Meaning that you may use them yourself; but you have to let me know.... unless it is a picture of you. I always let people see the pictures I take because they are part of the creation of that picture. It's their artwork as well as mine. Look up Creative Commons on Google.

[Opinionated Fish]

Good point, I'll talk to them about it when I have the chance. Thanks.

They may not even know they are doing it. Best to talk it out and make sure.

[rini]

philip: as a morse-lee, i can discuss feasibility, which is a funny topic...

roger and i have been contemplating re-opening the retail side of the store. now, don't get your hopes up, this is still just us throwing ideas around. simple fact is, and this is true of every anime retailer in the US, we make more money at cons than we ever did with a brick & mortar. however, with our current location, we might be able to do retail part-time, when we're not at cons.

this is all still very hypothetical right now! but, it's something we've been throwing around.

i like your idea of listing legitimate producers and distributors. i'd like to also add that japanese imports should be added to that list. stuff like Figma, Revoltech, Movic, Bandai, etc. just like the US, japan plasters their copyright information all over their product. also, another way to spot japanese imports, as compared to chinese, hong kong, or korean knock-offs is that they're EXPENSIVE. i'm currently looking at a solicitation for panty & stocking with garter wallscrolls, that will retail at least $70-80.

[GimmeAnime]

Cat... Bag...

Anyway, to follow up with the wife's comments, we've had enough people express interest that we started considering it a little while ago. We hadn't wanted to close up the retail side, but economic realities said otherwise. The same economic realities would prevent us from going retail full-time and full-scale. But we like being a part of the local fan community, so we are crunching the numbers and seeing what we can do. Nothing can happen until spring, though, FYI.

As far as TAS is concerned, I've never gotten the impression that the owner is actually making copies. He has no problems buying from questionable sources, but actually making bootlegs strikes me as more trouble than it's worth to him. There are plenty of Chinese sources willing to make those DVDs for him. But, I could be wrong.

BTW: For those of you in Colorado Springs, be sure you patronize Rainy Day Anime. I know that it's on the WAAYY south end of town and all, but I also remember how many people complained that the Springs didn't have an anime store after Lucky Neko closed up. If you want a local anime store, you have to patronize it. A few minutes worth of driving locally vs. a few hours of driving back & forth to Denver is your options.

[Rippy The Nekomatta]

GimmeAnime, considering that sadly one of his employees is a friend of mine, she's the only reason I go to the store, but I rarely buy anything. I have attempted to find other places to get my anime (hulu being the best, I still pay for premium subscription). Since the problems started with some friends and getting me stuff, my Japanese friends were the ones sending me anime from out of the country, whether it is a legit or not, they really don't know the difference sometimes considering one goes between China and Japan due to business. My Japanese friends were trying to find DVDs that could play on my DVD player without having to purchase for me a converter and a Japanese DVD player.

I have opted to shop online, Steve Lin from Anime Pavilion is amazing, he found stuff for me back when I was working for him at A-Kon...

[rini]

nagi: yah, steve's a good guy, and pavilion is a great store. we're not planning on carrying that much in the way of DVDs anymore, anyway, unless you want to special order it.

which reminds me: steve reported that there are now bootleg mythwear bags going around. i'm not sure what con he was at last weekend, but he spotted some that were for macross. now, we know this cos mythwear never had the macross license. so, keep your eyes open for those.

[Opinionated Fish]

Anime Pavillion. Been to A-Kon for years and they've been a good seller.

Bootleg Mythwear bags are in licenses that aren't part of this list. Here we go! Official Mythwear license list.

Bleach
Hellsing
Trigun
Inu Yasha
Fullmetal Alchemist
Dragonball Z/GT
FLCL
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Fruits Basket
Basilisk
Beck
Gunslinger Girl
Boys Be
Cromartie High School
Desert Punk
Di Gi Charat
Burst Angel Chobits
Galaxy Angel
Tetsujin 28
Gravitation
Gun Sword
Kiddy Grade
Lady Death (WHHHYYYYY!!!!!!!)
Mythical Detective Loki
Paranoia Agent
Saiyuki Requiem The Movie
Trinity Blood
XXX Holic
Kodocha
Speed Racer
Afro Samurai
Samurai 7

And that's a wrap on the Mythwear bags!

[rini]

well, the issue was that mythwear has been out of business for several years, but dealers still had the bags. there was a rumour going around that they were bootlegs. turns out that the owner of mythwear liquidated the last of his warehouse last early in 2009, which is why they were everywhere again this convention season.

however, we should be seeing less and less of them. so, beware on mythwear bags. mythwear had a very distinctive, textured vinyl logo they put on every bag. it would be very hard, not to mention expensive, to duplicate for bootleggers. so, just look for that hard vinyl logo, and you'll be good.

[Opinionated Fish]

So, check for the logo and make sure it's on the list if purchasing a Mythwear bag!

[Rippy The Nekomatta]

I always do, Considering I have Hellsing, Samurai, a Gravie comicbook bag that my exboyfriend bought me before Mythwear went out of business. I have a dozen different types of myth things lying around. Considering that Samurai bag was again something bought back at 2004. Those bags were proven to be legit bags.

Opinionated fish, you forgot Hellsing which is a legit set of bags, I showed them to the guy at the booth at Anime Nebraskon. Rini, you and your husband were there and you two saw me pick up the bag and the two wallets.

[Opinionated Fish]

I always do, Considering I have Hellsing, Samurai, a Gravie comicbook bag that my exboyfriend bought me before Mythwear went out of business. I have a dozen different types of myth things lying around. Considering that Samurai bag was again something bought back at 2004. Those bags were proven to be legit bags.

Opinionated fish, you forgot Hellsing which is a legit set of bags, I showed them to the guy at the booth at Anime Nebraskon. Rini, you and your husband were there and you two saw me pick up the bag and the two wallets.

Hellsing is in the list. Right after Bleach. The Mythwear site doesn't have them in alphabetical order.

[Rippy The Nekomatta]

okay, that could kill me eventually...librarian mode ON!

[Opinionated Fish]

okay, that could kill me eventually...librarian mode ON!

Commence Library Wars! Bwa ha ha!