Facts & Identification of Pirated Anime, Bootlegs, etc.

[GimmeAnime]

So I've noticed that while people have talked about pirated anime DVDs & CDs, there's no real guide around here about them. So in the interest of making sure the facts are straight, I'm posting a bit of a guide, which will evolve as time goes by. But first I have to make a couple things clear:

1) Yes, I realize that this is partially in my own self-interest, as I am in the business. However, I would rather have you purchase your anime from Wal-mart or Best Buy or Circuit City or deepdiscountdvd than to purchase from a dealer of pirated anime.

2) THIS IS NOT ABOUT FANSUBS! Fansubs will be mentioned, but the ethics will not be part of this discussion. This is about the selling of copied anime for profit. I will not entertain any responses about fansubs.

OK, now, first thing we have to do is clear up some misconceptions:

Misconception 1) These are legit Japanese imports:
Japanese imports are actually much more expensive than their American versions. As an example, an ad in the Japanese edition of Newtype lists the Ghost in the Shell: SAC 2nd Gig DVD Box set for 42,000 yen. Doing a straight 1 yen=1 cent conversion and you're looking at paying $420 for a box set that will have the Suggested Retail Price of $99.98 in the US.

Also, there are 2 other ways to tell. Japanese discs rarely have English subtitles on them (though the international market is slowly changing that) and just as rarely have Chinese subtitles on them. Secondly, most Japanese discs will be region coded, which means that a Japanese DVD won't play on a US DVD player unless you bought one that allows you to change the region codes. Now the Blu-Ray discs are coming out that have a much less restrictive region-coding, placing Japan and America in the same region, so they should be playable. However, that's Blu-Ray, not standard DVDs.

Misconception 2) These are legit Chinese imports:
There are a limited number of legitimate Chinese releases. However, they are usually region-coded as well (Region 3, as opposed to Japan's Region 2, and US's Region 1). Many will also included a Chinese language track as well, either in Mandarin or Cantonese.  The Cantonese version of "Howl's Moving Castle" is listed on some websites for $21.99, not for the $8-$10 versions you'll find at a pirated anime dealer.

Misconception 3) It has an English dub track, these are discounted American versions:
Ah, sounds like you got what is known as a "Region 1 rip", where the pirate used the American DVD release. Look for a Chinese subtitle track and markings of a company other than the known American companies.

Misconception 4) Don't care if it's legit or not, I got a deal:
Actually, no you didn't. You got ripped off. Let's put it this way. A friend of your's downloads a copy of (Insert Blockbuster Movie still in Theaters here). You say, "Gee, could I have a copy?" To which your 'friend' puts out his hand and says "$8... and because I'm a nice guy, I'll print up the copy of a DVD case cover I downloaded as well." So you paid $8 for a bad copy of a movie that he got for free, a blank DVD that cost him .50 at the most and a little bit of ink and paper for the cover. And he not only does that to you, but 9 of your friends as well. So he's got $80 for something that basically cost him nothing... now multiply that by the tens of thousands and drop the production price due to volume. No licensing fees (and you know they didn't MAKE the anime either), low production costs (sometimes they will even use fansub scripts rather than translating it themselves) and a high profit margin.

So you got ripped, the store that sold it got ripped (anyone who knowingly deals in pirated anime is also being used by these pirates), the companies who lost profit from lost sales got ripped... everyone got ripped EXCEPT the actual makers of the pirated DVDs, who are laughing all the way to the bank.

How do know what to look for?
Sometimes the simplest answer is "Is it too good to be true? A full series for $24?" But since some of the legit companies are starting to cut some prices, that may not be the only indicator. So a few links to look at the back covers of a few DVDs for comparison:

First, a legitimate Japanese DVD. This from a Fruits Basket disc. Notice the yen price is clearly printed ( 5,500 yen or $55 ), the Region coding is 2, and there are several logos from production companies.

Next, a pirated DVD, from a Detective Conan movie. Notice the English & Chinese subtitles, All Region coding, and a contact e-mail using a free service ( @yahoo.com ). Also notice the lack of any other production logos.

Lastly, from a pirated Samurai 7 DVD. Notice the Chinese/English subtitles, All Region coding, and lack of production company logos. Also notice that the copyright warning is in English rather than Japanese or Chinese for a supposedly Asian release.

Later on, I'll talk about CDs and Wallscrolls.

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

Righty-o Gimme Boyz!! Seriously you guys are like my kinsman in the fight against HK/Import junkers

The main giveaway is that its too good to be true. If you can but all of Saikano (4dvd series) for $20 then you know its a ripoff. also if you ever noticed that the packaging does look a bit off from what it should. take a look at the packaging and you'd notice there the distribution logos and prod. studios arent listed-legal reasons i wont show the classice ADVFilms, AnimeWorks, or Pioneer etc. and when they have to list the audio down like Gimme said its also a dead give too. Another wierd thing to look for is how everything falls on the same price. mostly cause its at a per dvd rate like 8 or 9 bucks a disc.

FYI- By buying imports youre not really giving back to the production studios which causes them to do drastic changes like not dubbing dvds at all anymore and just sending them over subbed which means less money for our fellow voice actin buds like SpikeSpencer.

[GimmeAnime]

FYI- By buying imports youre not really giving back to the production studios which causes them to do drastic changes like not dubbing dvds at all anymore and just sending them over subbed which means less money for our fellow voice actin buds like SpikeSpencer.

Actually, that is the most direct way to give back to the companies that make the anime, by buying the actual Japanese release. The companies you're referring to, like ADV and Funimation, well, I've known some people who do go out and buy the Japanese release because they don't like how the American companies do things. But these are the same people who don't particularly care for English dubbing no matter how well it is done, so it's a moot point that they would care if the dubbing actors have work or not.

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

Sorry i was speaking of the imports that come from like Malaysia or China. I should start saying bootlegs
Ive boughten straight from Japan product before, sure it was costly but it was for a gift that i really wanted to suprise, so no i dont bash Japan direct merchandise, just the stuff i later found out was done in Malaysia or Italy junk. My main prob has always been with the people like the ones down your street.  I just dont get how you can do that to the industry you seem to love so much. I was once in that realm of import/bootlegging not knowing which is which category didnt really know the difference from the import and the bootleg. They got me a couple of times til i read an online article back in 2005-ish since then I went and re-purchased everything that was a bootleg for the US version, its karmaic. Its good to give this info out and i hope there are more people in the know of these situations than before.

The only thing I know what to do in those situations is just let the companies that these people are stealing from no the situation. Ive called RightStuf once i before. I dont know what they did but RS did send me a US release of the show i got scammed on.

What would you prefer someone do when they know someone is selling bootlegged goods, seeing as you guys are in the biz?

[GimmeAnime]

Sorry i was speaking of the imports that come from like Malaysia or China. I should start saying bootlegs

It's part of the misconception that lends them legitimacy. When you say imports, people think you're talking about the good stuff, not the bad stuff. And so the sellers try to simply call them imports to lend them legitimacy. The terms generally used are HK's (Hong Kong, which was the biggest source of pirated DVDs until recently), pirated DVDs or bootlegs. I usually go with pirated DVDs because bootlegs make some people think they are the equivalent of unreleased studio or concert recordings. And while I know some people like pirates, these aren't the same type

My main prob has always been with the people like the ones down your street.  I just dont get how you can do that to the industry you seem to love so much.

Heh, well, as far as the actually pirates themselves, they are simply in it for the money. If they think they could make more money bootlegging something else, they would drop their anime titles in a second. Many of the same people who bootleg anime also pirate live-action films as well. And most of these operations have links to organized crime (the Triads, the Mafia, the Yakuza, certain rebel and terrorist groups as well) if not run directly by them (who do you think gives them money and protection from the law?). As long as people give them money, they will continue to produce, especially since the costs are so low.

And the ones who sell them? Most of it is price. Pirated DVDs cost a lot less wholesale than the legitimate releases and it's far easier to fill a store full of product and keep it that way. Plus you can get stuff faster if you're getting the rips from off-the-air captures or the Japanese DVD releases. Then there is the mentality of some of the bootleg store owners. They think by offering these DVDs at such a low price, they are actually providing a valuable service to fans (see previous as to why it's actually screwing them). I know a few have had the "Screw The Man" mentality. This was their way to protest what they don't like about the American releases, mostly delays between Japanese and American releases and the prices.

What would you prefer someone do when they know someone is selling bootlegged goods, seeing as you guys are in the biz?

Well, first of all, I want to let people know that sometimes buying pirated material is an honest mistake. I'm not going to come down on someone for not realizing what they bought. I got real lucky in having friends who knew what to look for when I got into anime, but many people aren't that lucky.

The first part is don't buy from them. Period. I know several of those shops have legit items as well as their pirated materials, but giving them ANY money allows them to stay open. As I've said before, I'd rather you buy from a Best Buy or a Borders or some legit on-line store if you don't want to buy from me or if we can't get in what you're looking for. Make sure you let people know. If your family members buy anime for you, make sure they don't got to those shops.

Now this next part is going to seem like an exercise in futility, but maybe if there is enough outrage, someone will do something. Report them. On our website's anti-piracy page, there is a list of places to report to, from the company themselves to the government.

It's unfortunate that we don't have an anime translation company in Denver, because prosecuting something in another state can be cost prohibitive, especially to medium-sized companies like those (which is why they prefer to go after fansubbers. Little easier to scare a broke college kid with a cease-and-desist than a small business). The government, on the other hand, prefers to go after volume, which is why they won't normally go after single shops. But if there is enough pressure, we might be able to get some of this stopped, possibly by choking off the shipments or shutting down the places in America that wholesale pirated merchandise.

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

Ill start goin with Pirated too, just gotta focus on that word. I guess the best thing to do is simply spread the word as much as one can. word of mouth is a powerful tool. Ive been able to get the majority of my friends to stop gettin Pirated dvds a while back. It felt good to show some the rights and wrongs of what this crazy anime world can throw at us, pretty much like youre doing with this post. its good that you took the time to post all of this down and talk with me yet again on this topic which i feel so strongly about

[GimmeAnime]

I just had a question about wallscrolls e-mailed to me, so I've decided to continue on that line here, since I promised to talk about other pirated items on top of DVDs.

Wallscrolls are probably the easiest and also the hardest items when dealing with pirated materials. Easy because there are only a handful of licensed companies that deal with them. Tough because you might not know you have a pirated wallscroll until you open it up.

How to tell:

Great Eastern (1) is the largest, and almost the only, producer of licensed anime wallscrolls in the US. (I say almost because ADV Films & Media Blasters put out a couple of their own wallscrolls and  Diamond Comics released two Battle of the Planets wallscrolls as well). GE has very distinctive branding on their merchandise, putting copyrights on the scroll and the tag will include an item number with a GE before it (GE-1492).

MOVIC is the largest Japanese anime goods manufacturer and produces most of the Japanese wallscrolls I've seen. Chances are that you will find the MOVIC name on most of your import anime goods, especially shitajiki (pencil boards). A Japanese wallscroll will usually cost about $25-30.

Pirated Wallscrolls will have a different numbering scheme, if they even bother with one. Some of the most popular ones will begin with Z , followed by 3 numbers ( Z-123 ). I've also seen ZA or U.

Pirated wallscrolls have other telltale signs:
- Very rough materials
- Faded or badly matched colors (different haircolors than the character normally has, etc)
- Image balance in that the image seems off-center or zoomed in, with names or characters cut off
- Quick fadeout due to the cheap inks used
- No copyright information

While not as hot of a topic as pirated DVDs & CDs, pirated wallscrolls can sometimes be found in places that normally don't carry pirated merchandise, so in some ways, it can be more widespread problem. And as much as it is about making sure that you buy products that will get money back to the creating companies, it's also about protecting yourself from wasting money on sub-standard products.

(1): The link is for information only. They deal only with other businesses so individuals can't order from them. However if you see an item, we have a direct account with them and you can order through us. PLUG PLUG

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

Whoa! why would someone pirate wallscrolls. I cant see it being that big a market than that of dvds. Good to know though

[GimmeAnime]

Whoa! why would someone pirate wallscrolls. I cant see it being that big a market than that of dvds. Good to know though

It's actually very prevalent to pirate wallscrolls, posters, and t-shirts. I don't have any pirate wallscrolls, but I do have a few of the laminated pirated posters I bought when I didn't know better, which are usually copies of images from Japanese calendars. A lot of the pirated wallscroll images come from images seen on pencil boards, DVD covers, or manga covers, though they are bad reproductions most of the time.

A lot of people end up buying them because a licensed version isn't readily available, hense why some places will carry them even when they won't carry pirated DVDs or CDs.

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

You're like an information Master Roshi. *bows- Im not worthy, Im not worthy*

[GimmeAnime]

You're like an information Master Roshi. *bows- Im not worthy, Im not worthy*

*heh* I only resemble Muten Roshi in one way, and it's the trait that usually gets him slapped 

I found some good information about CDs, so sometime soon, I'll post that up.

[Bradster]

Whoa! why would someone pirate wallscrolls. I cant see it being that big a market than that of dvds. Good to know though

Go to the folder on your PC where you store all your favorite anime/wallpaper images (some of which might come from the sources Roger mentions), and picture a dozen of them adorning your walls. Instant market if an authentic version doesn't exist, and silkscreening "original" counterfeit wall scrolls from a digital image is probably pretty easy on the scale of things.

Disclosure/revelation: it appears all of my wall scrolls (with the exception of one I got as a freebie from ADV) are counterfeits, and I'm pretty sure I got 2 of them at NDK04 or 05- whichever was the last at Holiday Inn. Probably just about every wall scroll you see in an online auction is a counterfeit unless specifically stated otherwise (which honest sellers seem to tend to do)

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

thank gawd i don have any countefeits but im gonna be paying extra careful attention when I looking for some. plus with xmas comin up im gonna be getting at least 2 this year for peeps

[Zarabadoo]

This is my personal opinion, but you are in the right. You had legit VHS copies that you bought and paid for, thus you have every right to replicate them for your personal use.

Now giving and "extra"  copy of (the dvd i presume) to your friend, that is a different story. That is copying and distribution of said material. It doesn't matter if money has not exchanged hands.

[Zarabadoo]

I definitely don't agree with the group's attitude (especially the leader's actions). That, like i said, my personal opinion on it. Only reason i gave it is because you asked.

I wouldn't swear off all anime clubs. They are all different and will give you a different feel. It is jsut time to find a different group.

[Greg Hines]

I agree with Zarabadoo on basically all points. From a legal perspective, there's absolutely nothing wrong with your transferring the medium on which your copyrighted material resides when it's for personal use. Giving away an extra copy is definitely not OK, though. And that anime club president's reaction was uncalled for. First, he was wrong about the copying. Second, treating someone like that because of an honest mistake (especially when it had already been rectified) is ludicrous.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled thread, please...

[Amadis]

it wasn't until i read through this thread that I realized that a couple of boxed sets I bought off of a certain site as gifts are probably pirated..They have almost all the signs of being bootlegs my bad.

What's funny is, I have a friend who is all up in arms about the whole deal with Geneon 'going under' as he puts it (I don't really know much about the whole situation, so discussion isn't necessary) and blames it on pirating, and yet continues to buy from that site because he doesn't want to believe that he accidentally bought pirated anime. Silliness.

I really want to thank you guys for bringing this to light for me, because I knew that I didn't want pirated dvds but I never knew what signs to look for.

[toadstoolssecretluvchild]

no prob sista! thanx for reading it out. hopefully your friend, if they wanna, we'll come round to understand whats goin on is actually silly, especially if they dont want to partake in Booted and Pirated goods

[GimmeAnime]

Geneon went under due to financial reasons, not due to pirates, your friend is wrong about that part. The company had already been under stress due to several series that flopped and putting too much money on things that were not going to work in the first place, Paranoia Agent and so on. The problem is that your friend is jumping to conclusions and wants someone to blame for something that really he had no control over. I'm sorry, but that's just something I looked into for someone else.

Piracy was not THE problem that caused Geneon to go under, but was A problem that contributed. Some were it's own financial decisions, other items were out of it's control, like when Media Play went bankrupt and lots of companies ended up loosing money since Media Play couldn't pay them for the merchandise they got on credit. Many anime companies suffered for that.. Plus, for every few series that ended up tanking, Geneon also had series that did consistantly well, like Hellsing and Trigun.

[GimmeAnime]

It basically came down to the parent company telling Geneon "You aren't making enough money. Cut expenses or we shut you down." Geneon tried to get ADV to handle the distribution of their titles, but the deal fell through at the last second. So, without distribution, Geneon was shut down. Which, amusingly enough, probably caused Newtype USA to go down because Geneon bought lots of advertising.

Now the real test comes in here: Would you pay, say, $2 an episode to download a series?